ladies and gentlemen good evening and welcome to Framing the Future my name is Andrew Hochhauser and I have the privilege of being the Chair of this great charity so thank you very much for joining us this evening at the Royal College of Physicians at the outset, I would like to pay tribute to our Development and Engagement Committees and our extremely dedicated and hardworking staff who have both conceived and made tonight’s events organisationally possible now I’ve been instructed to give you a health and safety announcement so let’s get that out of the way this is the fire exit and I am told – yeah, sorry so you’re gonna have to really foot it over here – and we are not expecting any drills on a more optimistic note, after this is over, drinks are being served outside and we have access to the garden now as we start this evening’s debate I would like to take a moment to stop and mark our organisation’s 60th anniversary in 1959 our founder Sheridan Russell worked as a care worker at the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in London now he was a musician and he was a big fan of the visual arts Sheridan began to display artworks in the waiting room and in the wards in which he worked he noticed patients’ reaction to the new artworks and began to see just how important art could be to our health and our wellbeing with help from the Nuffield Foundation, Sheridan set out to create a special art collection and this was to become Paintings in Hospitals the first and only national collection of art to support people’s physical and their mental health now today Paintings in Hospitals works across England, Wales and Northern Ireland we care for nearly 4000 artworks in our collection many of them by world-famous artists we are a partner to many museums the National Gallery, the V&A, the Wallace Collection and we are the Arts Council Collection’s health partner I would like to say a few words if I may about the extraordinary Gentileschi project that we are doing with the National Gallery and how well it has been received it has received an enormous amount of press coverage both here and abroad but for those of you who don’t know about it let me just give you a few words by way of description it is a project by the National Gallery to show masterpieces outside their usual setting it was a work that they have recently acquired by a 17th century artist – a female artist called Artemisia Gentileschi she was born in Rome in 1593 and she was the daughter of an artist the painting is a self-portrait that was acquired at the cost of 3.6 million pounds of her as some Catherine of Alexandria and we have partnered with them as part of their project in displaying that masterpiece believe it or not, in a GP surgery in East Yorkshire in Pocklington to coin the words of a tweet from the chair of tonight’s panel, what a surefire way to increase engagement and I’m really pleased that our colleagues in the National Gallery are here with us tonight – I would also like to give a plug for our blog 60 Years and 60 Voices – this presents 60 stories over the year about the difference that art makes to our lives from a whole community of artists, health professionals, museum professionals, people that work in galleries, patrons, trustees, patients, carers and beyond you can find these stories on our website and they are well worth reading so today we deliver creative activities and arts engagement alongside our loans program it is not simply putting artwork in hospitals we work side by side with

patients and care staff to create care spaces that are encouraging that are enriching that are empowering we can work with any type of health or social care site nationally – from a GP surgery to a hospice – if your local healthcare site needs art we would be delighted to help you our work is recognised as best practice and this month we have found out that we have been shortlisted for a Charity Today special recognition award but tonight I don’t want just to look back and reminisce on our achievements soon we will be writing the next chapter and we want your help and ideas on what we and our visual arts in health sector might do next, so let your ideas be stimulated by the provocation of this fantastic panel of speakers help us literally frame the future now I would now like to introduce our chair for this evening’s panel Ed Vaizey is the Member of Parliament for Didcot and Wantage he was Minister for Culture, Communications and the Creative Industries for six years from 2010 to 2016 he is currently the co-chair of the All Party Parliamentary Group on Arts, Health and Wellbeing not only is a trustee of the National Youth Theatre, he’s chair of something called Creative Fuse, he’s a Patron of Kids in Museums, so art and health are two subjects very dear to him – I would like you to join me in welcoming our chair Ed Vaizey well thank you very much Andrew it’s a real pleasure and a thrill to be here tonight and as Andrew pointed out I put out this incredibly erudite tweet about the Gentileschi saying it was a surefire way to increase engagement I’m not quite sure why I did such a clunky tweet for such a brilliant and inspiring act that Paintings in Hospitals has done it but it’s a tiny insight into my prosaic and boring mind I have been obsessed for the last two weeks but how on earth they’re gonna stop it getting nicked from the GP surgery because of course every newspaper article was keen to emphasise that it is now valued at 3.6 million pounds but I know that Paintings in Hospitals have thought about that and it’s wonderful that everyone has come here tonight to hear tonight’s provocation it’s going to be a very provocative panel because we’ve already had a flaming row about whether to stand or sit during our contributions and as somebody who’s emollient and likes to bring people together I’m going to stand for my opening remarks and I’m going to sit to make the introductions and then I’m going to leave the panel to decide what they want to do – one of the other roles I’ve taken on since I was brutally fired by Theresa May was to become the co-chair with Alan Howarth of the all-party group on arts and health and this was a poison chalice because I was lucky enough to produce the first white paper on culture we’ve had for 50 years when I was the Arts Minister and we couldn’t get any money out of the Department of Health or any commitment from them despite it being run by at the time by Jeremy Hunt who was ostensibly a previous culture secretary so the only paragraph I could put in the white paper was we will do whatever the all-party group on arts and health comes up with in their white paper so I then had to work with Alan Howarth to produce our own white paper and see whether the government would take it up and I’m very pleased to say that Matt Hancock the new health secretary is really taking this agenda forward talking about social prescribing and actually putting some money and thought behind the role that the arts can play in health and I have to say I personally leaving all politics aside find it extremely inspiring to see a health secretary who’s brave enough to talk about this subject and I say brave advisedly because it’s such an easy subject for the tabloids to attack as potentially a waste of money but we all know everyone in this room knows what an enormous difference the arts can make in health care – a few examples that I’ve jotted down arts on prescription in Stockport for new mothers offering visual art and music projects for mothers to help reduce postnatal

depression, the alchemy project in South London using dance as an effective early intervention in psychosis cases, an arts on prescription program in Cambridgeshire for people of working age leading to a significant decrease in depression, the Strokestra a collaboration between the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and Humber NHS Trust to reduce disability symptoms with people with stroke, those living with dementia, music therapy – A Choir in Every Care Home, of course, our dementia choir which was recently on the BBC, so we know that these interventions work and in fact this venue couldn’t have been better chosen with the Royal College of Physicians in this magnificent Denys Lasdun building and actually, if you are able to tear yourself away from the garden and the drinks and the networking, there is an exhibition upstairs called Breathe, which is full of visual art representations of breathing but also the first thing you see is the creation is the acknowledgement of the creation of a choir by the Royal Brompton and Harefield arts foundation to help people who have breathing difficulties recognising that singing is therapeutic for them as well, so we all know the legions of examples but now I’m going to sit down to introduce our panel bringing us together in a spirit of compromise we’ve got we’ve got a great panel I’m going to start at the end introducing people Edmund de Waal you will know is the internationally acclaimed artist and writer, renowned for his installations of porcelain vessels exhibited across the world, known for his best-selling memoir The Hare with Amber Eyes, a trustee of the V&A and a patron of Paintings in Hospitals and hot off the plane from Venice Errol Francis, chief executive of Culture&, a wealth of experience across arts and health through former roles as Joint Programme Lead at the Sainsbury Centre for Mental Health, Senior Associate Coordinator at the Department of Health and Inspire Programme Director at Arts Council England, recently the Artistic Director of Anxiety Arts Festival London and also Director of the curatorial group PS/Y Val Huet, Chief Executive of the British Association of Art Therapists, co-founder of the Art Therapy Practice Research Network in 2000, you’ve lectured internationally, chair of the Claremont Project between 2004 and 2014, an award-winning resource, providing art therapies arts for health and well-being activities to older people, recently completing a PhD on art therapy groups for work-related stress, which has also worked with the Paintings in Hospitals collection and finally Professor Victoria Tischler, Professor of Arts and Health and Head of Dementia Care at the University of West London, a trustee as well of Paintings in Hospitals, a chartered psychologist, an Associate Fellow of the British Psychological Society and Senior Fellow at the Institute of Mental Health, leading several projects to develop evidence for arts and multi-sensory approaches in dementia care – each of our panellists is going to give a short standpoint on how they see the arts playing a role in our wider health and social care system then we’re going to have a discussion and then we’re going to throw it open to the floor -we’re going to finish at 7:15 so that everyone has a chance to meet and talk to each other – now Victoria you’ve kindly agreed to go first and you’re going to be speaking from the lecturn good evening everybody, thank you for coming – fine arts in every care setting this is my manifesto for creative provision in the future for older people – we are an ageing society, the UK has nearly 12 million people aged 65 and over of those 5.4 million are aged over 75, 1.6 million at 85 years or older and half a million at age 90 or older – between the years 2016 and 2046 the population aged 65 or over is forecast to grow more than 50% and there’ll be a more than hundred percent increase in those aged 75 or over – ageism remains a societal problem with many older people finding it hard to access good quality

care and services as a result – 850,000 people live with dementia in the UK most of those are older people the numbers are predicted to reach a million by 2025 and two million by 2051 – 70 percent of people living in care homes have dementia or severe memory problems and despite increased efforts to find a cure for dementia there isn’t one on the horizon in the absence of a cure therefore how do we ensure that those people living with dementia receive the best quality care possible – the arts have a significant role to play in the lives of older people many of whom have dementia although many care settings are working hard to improve their cultural provision high-quality creative activities are lacking for many – it’s a scandal that many older people who after dedicating their adult lives to contributing economically, raising the next generation and supporting their communities are left under-stimulated and given little choice of what type of activity they wish to participate in – research evidence supporting the positive benefits of arts for people with dementia is growing, some of the benefits include increased attentiveness, promotion of meaningful conversation, improvements in mood and enhanced verbal fluency – so what will the future look like when all older people have access to high-quality art that improves the environment, provides stimulation and intellectual challenge, improves their mood and reduces stress anxiety and depression – I’ve got three ideas that I want to put forward firstly every care home will have an artist-in-residence not simply to offer creative activities but to work alongside nurses, doctors and carers to challenge and change the culture of care, to bring flexibility, curiosity and inspiration to settings that can often be inflexible, dull and lacking in imagination – many artists welcome the opportunity to work with older people and find the experience benefits them professionally by providing inspiration to develop their own practice and some artists are really pushing boundaries to provide novel creative engagement – two of those, Kate Sweeney and Claire Ford, moved into a care home in Gateshead in 2017, living alongside resin for a month, creating artwork together – another artist Chris Green has developed an experiential theatre piece called The Home, where the audience is invited to move in for two nights to be cared for – secondly all GP surgeries up and down the country will have not ragged issues of Country Life and Prima from 2008 but exceptional artwork to enjoy like Paintings in Hospitals’ current project Artemisia Visits, which Andrew has told you about already, and this is important as many older people visit the GP regularly, particularly people who live alone – and thirdly every hospital across the country will have high-quality art on its walls like the wonderful showcase at the nearby University College Hospital – art that’s chosen by patients and staff to provide aesthetic pleasure to stimulate meaningful conversation, to distract from pain and anxiety, and to soothe and reflect upon – wherever we live no matter what our health status we all have a right to access culture – Article 27 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states everyone has the right to freely participate in the cultural life of the community to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits, so join us to think more like an artist and act creatively and ensure that everyone, including the oldest members of our society, experience the pleasures, enrichment and life-affirming benefits of art thank you thank you very much indeed – Val well thank you Victoria that was a really great introduction and just to pick up your point about the value of arts and good art on the walls of where

we work and where service users may be – absolutely I worked in partnership with paintings in hospitals for this research on work-related stress and it was really important to have access to their fantastic collection of artworks that was on display on the walls of the organisation within which we worked now one of the most exciting outcome of this research obviously was writing and publishing but really what got me incredibly excited was to actually find out that all these professionals from all sorts of backgrounds and status within organisations actually connected for the first time with the thought that art may be for them and the phrase I used to hear the most is well I’m no good at art or art isn’t me for me and actually having an invitation to engage and be supported to engage with discussing artworks and making a response using art really open up the possibility that actually you don’t need to be an expert to get engaged in art and it’s fine to come at your point and it’s fine to go and walk into a museum or gallery and look at an artwork and see what you think what you feel about it and I suppose the first part of my provocation is we need to do a lot of work for visual art to actually really take down this kind of idea that unless you’re an expert at art it’s not your business to get engaged in art and people remembered exactly when they discovered that they were no good at art, they could really pinpoint the time when they kind of stopped getting involved in art making when they were quite young and unfortunately it happens at quite a young age now for me the arts in general, all the arts, are really important because they provide a bridge back to ourselves and to others there are intensely relational and we are living at the moment in the society where loneliness has been identified as a really difficult problem something that’s affecting a lot of people and it’s a silent kind of status loneliness people don’t say they’re lonely necessarily be they feel it so we’ve got a really big part to play in sort of really bringing people together and engage in this in art activities in whichever sort of level and whatever arts they want to do and this brings me to our children – we have got a tsunami of child mental health issues and there are no resources to actually meet this so I’m kind of looking at the other side of like the beginning of life and it’s really great that Victoria thought about older people because what’s happening with our children at the moment is that the arts are being culled from the curriculum – they are being taken away because there’s no resources and they just are not accessed by children who are not lucky enough to get this as part of what their families may provide, so we are forming a problem that’s going to be really difficult later because when you do access the arts at school it opens up something about learning about yourself, about others, about compassion about empathy, it’s really part of our mental health and our development so the more we take the arts away from the curriculum in schools, the more we are sort of impoverishing the possibilities for our children to use that as part of their own growth and maybe actually take this up as something that they may want to go into – in the work that I do at the British Association of Art Therapists, I can’t tell you how many people come to our introductory slots to you know when they’re about sort of 40-50, people have been stuck in the wrong career all their lives and finally they kind of go back and try and do something about it and very often it’s kind of like well my parents told me there was no money to be made in the arts which is really you know an issue but I think there’s something about maybe presenting that as a possibility that if you can’t make a career out of it, maybe you would like to kind of have it as part of your life anyway so my provocation is we really need to kind of start campaigning for the arts not to disappear from our children’s lives at school, very important it is provided at school but also research does show that how arts are taught is really important – it’s not just about throwing a few paintbrushes and sort of doing something because, you know, by somebody who’s not particularly well trained to do that or doing a Shakespeare play badly that’s going to put the child off looking at Shakespeare for the rest of their lives the way that we teach the arts is also incredibly important so it’s not just bringing the arts back into school is actually bringing quality of teaching in

arts in schools and I think this is you know something that I would like to kind of see as a framing of the future to really get back to stopping this belief that cramming our kids with more and more exams and more and more of the more academic subjects is going to be creating some well balanced and actually resilient adults because I fear it’s not so we really need to kind of like value the arts within our children’s work thank you very much indeed – Errol thank you very much first of all happy birthday and congratulations to Paintings in Hospitals for your 60 years of promoting wellbeing in hospitals with art and beauty – as a visual artist and artistic director of Culture&, which is devoted to opening up who makes and enjoys the arts, I’m a passionate believer in the power of art not only to produce wellbeing but also to question the world in which we live and possibly to suggest new ways of being – in addressing this brief that I’ve been given which is about the future of visual arts and health, I’d like to stress diversity as well as putting visual arts in context with other art forms and suggest ways in which we can make the arts more representative of our population and how it can address the new social realities in which we live and our changing understanding of the human body in relation to health, science, its care and treatment – this necessarily involves questioning the status of the visual in relation to art and to place it in the context with other art forms and this is something that we do at Culture& all the time, even though I’m trained as a visual artist, I always think about what its limits are and how it can gain power by its curation within a wider artistic context – my starting point is a quotation from the American photographer Diane Arbus she said, surprisingly for a photographer, a picture is a secret about a secret, the more it tells you the less you know – Arbus was referring to the limitation of the visual to communicate meaning, the visual overload particularly in our Western society and the proliferation of visual information resulting that often results in a shutdown in our perceptual faculties in which we cease to process the information being conveyed to our brains simply because it’s too much as Tate said in their recent 2015 Sensorium programme galleries are overwhelmingly visual but people are not, the brain understands the world by combining what it receives from all five senses, so drawing on the concept of the cyborg which is the part human, part machine concept and which we addressed in a recent programme at the Wellcome Collection, the increasing progress of medical technology demands that we rethink the boundaries we perceive between human and non-human, between races ,genders or classes and the art forms that can address this – I think this is important in the delivery of art in hospital or healthcare setting for four main reasons – first healthcare reflects all of the inequalities in our society in relation to race, gender sexuality, social class, also in ways such as the over-representation of certain groups in particular condition, such as ethnic minorities and mental health, the relationship between poverty and TB, or the whole range of conditions and variations in relation to gender – second we now know much more about the potential of different art forms to promote wellbeing such as singing has been mentioned earlier for people with respiratory disorders or the benefits of music for people living with dementia and third the experience of illness because sometimes compromise our various faculties including the visual which need to be re-stimulated or reawakened in order for us to regain our health and wellbeing and for them quite importantly visual art is not what it was it now encompasses a range of practices including video performance installation sound and even smell appealing to a greater number of faculties than the purely visual – this is particularly important in considering the range of conditions that we’ve mentioned and some of which affect particular senses, particular faculties and there are many more conditions that can affect our ways of experiencing the world and our appreciation particularly of visual art – so drawing on our recent cyborgs programme, here is a such snapshot of a future Paintings in Hospitals programme in collaboration with other arts and health practitioners for the year

2025 there will be a virtual reality and video digital art installation that will be available for a children’s hospital allowing patients not only to experience artworks but to enter them and to alter the spaces that are being created and represented in the artworks there’ll be a multi-sensory immersive environment in which patients experience sounds, smells, tastes and visual and physical forms inspired by visual artworks allowing them to record and review their responses through playful measurement devices, an installation perhaps of the Italian artist Maria Novella Del Signore called Cut Grass and that replicates the smell of a freshly mown lawn a retrospective perhaps of the Serbian artist Marina Abramović her sound pieces, video works, installations and photographs which also involve solo and collaborative performances with audience participation there could be a performance of Jocelyn Pook’s Hysteria, a song cycle for singer and psychiatrist which Culture& recently commissioned which explores the impact of psychological trauma on the body or perhaps there could be a performance of Remembering Who I Am, a stroke rehabilitation project using dance and movement in collaboration with the contemporary dance venue called The Place this program would be delivered by a diverse range of artists in terms of gender, social class, social background and cultural diversity, it would put into context the role of what has been historically understood as visual art or the visual and make connections between all five human senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch well follow that at your peril fabulous, fabulous – three minutes you’ve got three minutes of me last ten years too much time in oncology units, too much time in sectioned areas of psychiatric hospitals, too many times, too many weeks too many months in waiting rooms I hate Monet three words – paintings in hospitals by the end of the decade, I hate hospitals and I hate paintings in hospitals, I hate that strange attenuation of the experience of seeing a picture that was beautiful hung without love, at the wrong scale, glazed, in the wrong place passive in fact the words paintings and hospitals are so difficult for me that I was conscious that the only time I had a similar conversation with someone who struggled was with the new director of the Imperial War Museum who said that those were the three words that was going to make his life hell what do we do? what’s wrong with Monet in a corridor? it’s not where we should start that passivity is dangerous that attenuation of spaces that failure to engage with how you move into and round and through spaces is dangerous – every time you cross a threshold in a hospital, a hospice a doctor’s waiting room, you are very, very exposed, you are dangerously vulnerable what can you possibly do, what can you possibly bring to that experience of crossing over, crossing into a different space John Dewey the American philosopher wrote an extraordinary book 80 years ago called Art as Experience trying to take back the work that happens in the encounter with art the work that happens with the encounter with art, not the passivity, the work that

happens and he says that when you experience art it’s like the flight and perching of a bird – you’re in flight you’re experiencing it and it’s resonant and it’s working with you but at a certain moment you perch, you stop and at that moment its resonant, it does something different – you are absorbing it it’s a challenge, it’s a good word for us, it challenges you, it brings you back to a different space but actually it’s active, it’s the activity of experiencing art that matters, the resonance and the wonder, the flight and the perching what can we do – I do two things in my life, I make things and I write about them my whole life I’ve been hugely privileged to have my hands in clay, I know the incredible gift of what it is to spend a life somatically, bodily challenged by a return to a material which is complicated and beautiful, gives me challenges me and makes me understand myself as a whole human being I also write books these two things that somatic wholeness that can come through the exploration and encounter, the encounter with material that restoration of the body through touch is also a restoration of our space in the world – it’s taking us back to stand again in the world in a particular space and that’s what words can do too because voice happens in space so my provocation, my real deep felt provocation, is to return us to space and to voice and to the ambition, the real powerful ambition, to bring healing into these spaces well, brilliant, thank you so much and I think that there are so many knowledgeable people in the audience, I’m going to keep my dialogue with the panel to the bare minimum but it just occurred to me that there were sort of two or three themes that emerged and I think the first I wanted to talk about was Victoria’s provocation about every hospital and GP surgery should have a painting and Edmund’s, if I can characterise it, refinement of that which is that’s all very well but what if it’s done very badly and whether we can marry that and it’s interesting that one of the first things that happened when I became an MP was the Oxford Mail rang me up and said oh the John miraculous is spending 50 grand on a sculpture what a waste of money can we have a quick please and my thought then was it could be a waste of money if it’s done badly if somebody’s just ticked a box and said got to put the sculpture outside the entrance that’s art in hospitals as opposed to people curating with love and care with this feeling of yes we’re going to have paintings in hospital but it’s got to obviously have a healing effect so I wonder whether panel had thoughts on that whether you can marry the two, how do you avoid a box-ticking exercise, if you do say that everyone should have art in hospitals or GP surgeries I didn’t say any art, I said high-quality art because art can be bad, it can be done badly, it can distress, it can be ugly and I also said working in partnership with patients and staff so that’s really important because it has to be the sense of space and place, that Edmund referred to, has to be taken into consideration who it’s for, why it’s there is there stuff that you’ve seen that does work, Edmund? well we’re gonna hear about some particular spaces – yes I have seen some

extraordinary, remarkable art but not very often and that’s the problem I’m thinking of Michael Craig Martin’s work in – and I’ve gone and lost the huge mural in Chelsea & Westminster thank you – St Mary’s okay, Michael’s been out there I mean, I have, in terms of the provocative nature of this, I do have worries sometimes about foyer art about someone very, very grand being commissioned to do something very spectacular because that’s what a trust or a hospital feels it needs, you know because that’s showing, you know, showing the grandeur of their ambition but in fact that actually – to fill a foyer with art is actually spectacularly easy to do – what’s much more difficult to do is exactly what you’re saying is that nuance of trying to work in partnership, to make each part of the whole work with the people who are actually going to have to deliver the experiential thing of those patients and clients and people who are actually coming in actually being in those spaces so part of the whole problem is yeah, I sort of have a different take on this because when working with with staff teams, looking at paintings in hospitals, it was actually really important that these artworks were original, they weren’t the Monets, they were really good art and good art was something that could actually bring something familiar and new – it took you to a different place the more you looked at it the more you saw in it and in fact there were just a couple of images that the feedback was really negative about and it was the images that have been sort of selected in a specific psychiatric ward because they were ‘calming’ and everybody thought they were dead boring and people didn’t engage with that but the images that were actually provocative surprising, where people could actually sort of with, you know, the proposition was – what do you think? do you like it? what does it make you think? can you make a story from it? what do you think happens before after during this painting – and that was really important because it actually gives permission to people to actually start engaging with art without having a degree in it, so I will defend paintings in lots of different workplaces as something that actually gives access with a bit of help to people who don’t go to museums and art galleries because they simply think it’s for other people not for them well that was the other theme I wanted to explore, so on the one hand art everywhere in surgeries and hospitals but also it seems to me it is potentially a win-win if it’s done well in terms of engagement and I wrote an article for Apollo a while back, which obviously had a dreadful title, called which I came up with, Whistler in Westfield but the point I was trying to make was that it does seem to me that we’ve got to move beyond venerating paintings on a museum wall and to have them in surprising locations and for people to stumble upon them and pass by them, either in a shopping centre or in, unfortunately, in a hospital I’d like to say something about the integration of the architecture actually – I think that the architecture of hospitals has got worse because if things like PFI and I think that for my research at the Slade I actually studied the Foundling Hospital in 1746 and it was interesting how, in the design of the hospital, they considered the display of art and it ended up being actually the first public art gallery in England and so I think that, in the brief for architects, I think that the, not only the display of art but as I was suggesting the activity of art needs to be considered in relation to the design you know, the display and the activity of art in the design of health care settings – I think that’s a quite important way of avoiding it looking like it’s just being stuck in some corridor somewhere absolutely, at the design phase and I totally agree with you that hospitals are and indeed GP surgeries are all terribly designed

off-the-shelf construction projects and perhaps if we thought more of our arts art in hospitals in a health care setting it would affect the design quality as well it’s really important to separate out the the placing of art that already exists on walls which has a very valuable role and the commissioning of art for particular spaces and the creation of art within these settings and the idea of the experiential as actually, you know, with both artists as a therapeutic kind of experience that happens within these spaces, the performative nature of art within these spaces which you you were vigorously evangelising for and it seems to me that they’re actually, in a funny kind of way, it’s so much bigger than the word ‘paintings’ and I think the paintings are a problem actually right so, in fact what we’re going to do at the end of this session is we’re going to rename the charity but that will be a focus group out in the garden after we’ve had a couple of glasses but there about a dozen more questions I want to ask I want to ask about the role of museums, I want to ask about the role of, funnily enough, philanthropists in this area and I also wanted to talk about how you can use art in hospitals in terms of diversity but I’m conscious actually that I’m taking up too much time and I know how many people are in this audience, so I would love someone, any member of this audience, to come in with a comment or with a question – there are two people that I know I’m going to call on and they know who they are but I’d love volunteers to begin with there are microphones of course everyone realises that they will be thrown a microphone and I’m going to ask Mando Watson who’s here from St Mary’s to tell us about the extraordinary work that’s going on in St Mary’s thank you very much and thank you to all of you for provoking us I am a paediatrician at St Mary’s I have the privilege, as so many of us do, to work in a great state institution that is the NHS and I’m really grateful to Edmound for reminding us of the the pain and the challenge that thousands of people experience in hospitals every day and I see humanity played out every day in an extraordinary way in our children because I’m a pediatrician and their parents but also across every ward in every hospital and we recently expanded our children’s intensive care unit and therefore rebuilt it and were fortunate enough to enter a collaboration with the Albers Foundation who deeply immersed themselves in what we were doing and informed the space of an intensive care unit with the work of Joseph and Anni Albers and I can’t tell you how transformative that has been – you see, in the most critical situation, children, parents, staff feeling differently, feeling, behaving differently, experiencing things differently and their humanity sort of informed by this beauty around them I wish I could invite everybody to come and see – you can’t have a crowd trawling through an intensive care unit – it’s really very special I suppose the question really which has been sort of playing around is how we change the discourse – my colleague Lucy who’s in the room who works in Imperial Charity and I and a great heap of others have had to work jolly hard to get the sort of the barriers to fall away in order to enable this to happen it’s not an easy NHS conversation to say stop everything we’re going to do something rather special and it’s going to take time and it’s going to involve a whole lot more people – you know the NHS doesn’t work like that it needs to get on with things quickly and cheaply and efficiently how long has it been in place now? well it I mean it’s half opened and the other half is still being built so what’s been the reaction internally?

I mean unbelievable – so staff you have so much more joy in coming to work, they’re so much calmer, they’re so much happier, they’re talking to each other in different ways they’re staying in their jobs, they’re not burnt out any more in terms of the people you had to convince, how have they reacted? I think when they see it they are really thrilled and they feel rather proud and they were a part of it, so I guess once you get to the point where you have persuaded them all, it speaks for itself which is why I want you all to come and see it brilliant, well we will stagger the visits Tim Reeve is responsible for asking me to chair this so, I can ask him to make a contribution Tim Reeve from the Victoria & Albert Museum I’m fascinated – a lot of this always comes down to money but clearly the role of museums working, as we’ve heard about the National Gallery, working in healthcare is potentially a fantastic one for both sides yeah and I’ve been kicking myself for the last, however long the National Gallery project’s been going on that we didn’t come up with and Ben the director of Paintings in Hospitals has been kind enough to follow up with an email prompting me and the V&A to be the next cab off the rank – I mean I’m kind of struck by the I think the Elgin… that’s the British Museum no, it’s only two dimensional, flat art we’re talking about as Edmund rightly pointed out, no sculpture – I mean it it kind of seems to me that there is kind of limitless opportunity to engage a new audience with with kind of art and I agree with your analysis that actually having art in a very cathedral-like and kind of venerated space for a lot of people is not how they want to consume their culture or how they are comfortable engaging in culture but I also kind of like Edmund’s point, which needs a lot of thought, it seems kind of very simplistic and sometimes bordering on the patronising to suppose that someone might feel better or that the carers or those taking somebody to hospital with a life-threatening illness might somehow have art on a wall make any difference whatsoever to what they’re coping with so I kind of know from my kind of career and lots of people here in the room will know that good art in the right environment lifts your spirits or makes you feel a bit taller or makes you feel a bit more cultivated or a bit more hopeful but, for me, there’s a lot to kind of consider in how you how how you put that in a different environment and the reaction you’re trying to get, or the impact you’re trying to get, from people who are dealing with some of the most difficult moments of their of their life so I get it on a very visceral level in a kind of museum context and I’m really interested in the opportunities for museums and galleries to take this opportunity to use art to engage and have impact in a completely different setting, a completely different context and I know that most museums are really up for and are in the right kind of intellectual space to be thinking about how they use their collections more creatively, so to make people’s lives not better, different, more layered, richer and I mean, I should say, I don’t obviously see the museum disappearing, I just think art in a different space is a different front door through which to as you know better than anyone because it was one of your big things when you were minister, you know museums have plenty of stuff sitting behind the scenes in storage facilities or wherever it might be, so it’s not – there is plenty to go around right, yes, we have someone on the front – thank you Tim if you want to say who you are as well thanks, my name is Damian Hebron, I work at Nesta but before that I ran London Arts and Health Forum and worked in a hospital for a long time running an arts program I wanted to pick up on Errol’s point about inequality and about the communities who are not served by the current offer and the key thing I heard from the comment about St Mary’s was the word charity and we are in danger I think of developing a kind of two-tier NHS system when it comes to the role of the arts in healthcare because so much of it is supported by charities so even in London the hospitals that are actively able to engage with Paintings in Hospitals

and other kind of arts endeavours, tend to be the ones with big charitable foundations and parts of the country where that doesn’t exist mean that there’s whole chunks of the country where this sort of activity just doesn’t reach and often those parts of the country equate to parts that experience health inequalities and other broader inequalities so my question to the panel is how do we avoid this becoming even more of a kind of privilege and the sort of preserve of rich pockets of the country that can afford the fantastic potential that the arts can offer? you’ve stunned our panel into silence – Errol? you’ve covered two points which I wanted to cover actually which one is about health inequalities and the role the arts play and I’m not sure whether my mind has got around at which angle to approach that question whether the art itself is a different kind of engagement and also this point about charity which is such a loaded word in almost any context but in this context as well it’s it adds to the feeling of the art being an afterthought not integrated into health care but also, weirdly, I think you’re right, a sort of sense of privilege and elitism in terms of where art is present well, you asked a question about what can you do about it, I mean we’re here because we all believe in this stuff and it’s a campaign, it’s making a powerful powerful case to government and those who have the ear of government and you chair the all parliamentary something, something, something, something yes, the all parliamentary something, something is going to do something about it yeah so you know that’s the only way – is to absolutely nail that voice, that singular voice which says actually this makes a difference but everyone and has to be completely national that, as you say, health inequality is toxic in this country – and you’re doing this by doing the research for God’s sake – so actually having been able to actually prove what happens in this world is hugely important because otherwise people just go, you know it’s just another thing that we can’t afford yeah and it’s more than just feeling better I mean we’re finding some really interesting findings around actually changing people’s cognition and behavior but I’m also very aware because I work alongside artists that we don’t want to commodify what artists are doing we don’t want to dilute that magical, inspirational creative essence of art by reducing it to numbers and measurements either but it’s a very fine line because politicians and commissioners and policy makers – they want the numbers, they want the hard evidence, they want the facts and it’s sort of it’s quite a difficult line to to draw really well it’s a good year to do this I mean it’s your sixtieth anniversary, so if you know if you can’t make the message incredibly clear in this year when you’re celebrating the 60th anniversary you know – this is the moment isn’t it and as a result of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Arts, Health and Wellbeing report in 2017, there’s a real there’s now a real sea change in momentum of people, lots of whom in the room, who want to really drive this area forward and just a word on some of the very powerful institutions, the art galleries and museums, you know people need to actually look at what they’re doing and they maybe need to change the way they’re operating they need to reach out to communities who are marginalised, who aren’t getting the benefits that we get Errol and I were talking recently about, you know, we’re lucky to be in London, we have an abundance of arts and culture in London but I lived in the Midlands for many years, people there feel they’re not getting the same kind of cultural offer and we need to change things I think it needs leadership and as I said earlier I think weirdly it needs brave leadership I think Matt Hancock is showing that leadership – very early days and it may come to nothing because he may be gone in three months who knows – but the way things are going but I think it needs local leadership as well and it leads and I also think it needs leadership at both ends there are a lot of arts practitioners, I tend to use quite bureaucratic language who think you know we’re here for the arts, why should I be engaging in health care and obviously there are a lot of local health leaders who think I’m going to get pilloried if I go down this road but once you cross that Rubicon

actually, you find you quite easily take people with you and I totally agree with you that you need the evidence to back it up but I also think you need a gut instinct to follow your instincts but we’re coming to the wrapping up point so if I’d love to take one or two more comments or questions – 10 minutes – the voice of God emerges occasionally during the discussion to guide us and we’ve got one question up there and we’ve got one down here next hello, I’m Mia – I don’t work for Paintings in Hospitals anymore, very sadly I was just wondering what the panel think the role of interpretation and curation is in this scenario of artwork in hospitals in regards to, what you’ve all touched on, breaking that barrier of kind of the elite notion that if you don’t know about art, then you don’t know about art and recreating the same level of interpretation that is in galleries where people who are engaged in art, who have chosen to go to a gallery and engage in art, in a hospital setting or care setting is not necessarily going to provide that level of engagement and I’m just interested in I think that’s a great point – I’m just gonna take a couple more and then throw it back onto the panel – sir yes hello, my name is Richard Cork and I wrote a book on the history of art in hospitals and I’d just like to stress how incredibly rich that history is and this very, very important meeting here tonight which has covered so many issues aught I think to also stress the fact that if we look back through the history of art actually we will discover that there are so many highly important, eloquent, moving, poignant, just devastatingly great paintings and sculptures that were done centuries ago for hospitals part of the trouble is that some of them are no longer in hospitals, for example the Matthias Grünewald, the great Isenheim Altarpiece, which is one of the all-time masterpieces of Western art, is no longer in a hospital and people tend to forget that it was made actually for a hospital – the same is true of Piero della Francesca’s altarpiece which is now in his hometown Sansepolcro but it was actually painted for a hospital – you mentioned, didn’t you, the Foundling Hospital here in London has an incredibly rich history, William Hogarth the great hero, wasn’t he, of the whole scheme there to bring art into a really fine building, which alas was demolished and music – Handel as well all the artist subscribed to the Foundling Museum I could go on but maybe I’d just like to end by saying that in January this year I had a mercifully minor operation at St Mary’s in Paddington which thank goodness turned out well but I remember lying there for a while and doctors telling me, quite rightly, the important thing they keep saying is to exercise, to get out of the bed, if you can and just walk down the corridor and so I sort of struggled to get out of bed and tried manfully to walk down the corridor and to my intense relief, there I discovered a whole series of prints by Richard Deacon, who’s an artist that I’ve always enjoyed looking at and there they were and somehow this whole notion of looking at the prints as I walked down the corridor helped me enormously because I realised how much they were giving me in terms of seeing them again and again, I wanted to return to them, I wanted to find out more about these prints and about my reaction to it they were inspired by a Rudyard Kipling poem and I thoroughly recommend them to anybody who’s interested in that well we will go and visit them but hopefully not to have a minor operation – the lady next to you wants to ask a question which makes life a lot easier thank you – Miranda Stern University of Cambridge Museums and I guess I wanted to respond a little bit to Damian and

also kind of pick up on someone of what you said Ed around how we avoid this maybe being London centric or only rooted in sort of large, well-resourced organisations and I think that’s by really recognising the rich ecology of this work across the country in terms of it being something that there are actually lots of individual arts practitioners and heritage practitioners really interested in and that it can happen between local museums and their local health setting – it’s wonderful and great to have the V&A and the National Gallery involved but that actually the potential is in that richness across the UK and and I suppose this also cheeky shout out for an organisation that’s only a year old, which is the Culture, Health and Wellbeing Alliance, which is Arts Council supported, and is a sort of network of networks, trying to help those things happen on a local level and bring together people in culture, arts, heritage and health because it can you can do powerful work on a small scale with local collections and artwork too so maybe that’s one part of tackling the very real issue around the potential in health inequalities this could exacerbate I totally agree with that right, how long have we got – five minutes, who else would like to make a comment I mean I was going to say so – the lady up there I just remembered I wanted to say to the panel I thought the point about, Victoria you mentioned an artist-in-residence, a curator in residence – is that a step too far to have the John Radcliffe, my local hospital have a curator in residence? Isn’t that a good idea? erm, the John Radcliffe has a curator in residence my point wasn’t necessarily about putting a curator, as we know it now, in a hospital or in a GP surgery, it was about how you transform what we know as curation or what Joe Bloggs knows as curation from, as Val was saying, when he was at school and was told that wasn’t their thing, how we transform that notion of curation and interpretation in artwork into something that is compassionate and compelling and understandable by people who we’re told don’t access art in the way that everyone in this room knows you can well you’ve got the panel now chafing at the bit Errol, Val I think what came out of the research I did was that what really hooks people in are the narratives the stories, the stories that are to do with the artworks and working with the curators from Paintings in Hospitals, what was really brilliant was this thing about it wasn’t just about the aesthetics, it wasn’t the kind of the arty bits it was about maybe the story of the artist, what was going on in their life before, during, after, what was the social context of a piece – it’s about finding a little bit of you inside that artwork that kind of hooks you in, something that you can relate to and then we can move on a bit but that’s the narrative that’s really important yeah, I mean the first time you asked the question, you stressed interpretation and then in the second iteration, you talked about curating and I think both of them pose really interesting questions in practice in the healthcare environment – I think that the idea of you know a singular reading or the way of interpreting an artwork for a public is hugely problematic already in a museum or art gallery setting and I just hope we don’t replicate those practices and I hope that arts in hospital be a way to rethink the whole idea of interpretation and making much more audience focused but the the the curator term is really really interesting because this is a term that’s been hijacked by the art world its origins have nothing at all to do with art, it has much more to do with looking after people actually and so I think that that in both disciplines as it were, I think the practice in hospital is or in healthcare environments is a chance to rethink this rather aloof notion of interpretation or curating – that curating actually originated in looking after people and having their involvement, so I think there’s a chance for a much more collaborative practice and the recognition that there are multiple readings of an artwork and you can’t impose that on an audience brilliant – we’ve got a lady at the top, I think and somebody in the front

three people now in the front – it’s becoming a bit like an auction, somebody just stroked their hair and I thought they were gonna ask a question – shall we start over there I just wanted to respond to Mia’s question about the interpretation and I worked as a Research Evaluation Associate with Paintings in Hospitals on the work that they commissioned from Tom Ellis in collaboration with the Wallace Collection and I saw some really good example of practice of working with members of a local community association that was attached to a GP surgery to ask questions and discuss and really spend that time with people to talk about the paintings and to give them space and to ask questions and open up discussion around how their stories related to the painting and what that interpretation could be and the interpretation boards that were then later placed in the GP surgery and with the painting came from the questions that the people that Paintings in Hospitals had worked with had devised and they were much more interesting and much more engaging I think than if someone had just written it for them, so I think there are some really good examples already excellent, excellent point I’m Wendy de Silva, I’m going to ask you a question the All-Party Parliamentary Group, about why they didn’t actually specifically say anything about money and who should be funding this work, partly because I’ve sat on an Arts Committee for a London hospital which, for 15 years, has always struggled to find money, partly because I’m an architect and if we had money allocated at the beginning, we could design things in, if it comes at the end, great, but it’s really not having the same amount of effect or possibility and I know part of the reason, you’ve already answered it the press come and ask you why you are having artwork, why 50,000 pounds of NHS money has been spent on art, rather than on services but I’d be very interested to know the answer to that question yes I’m going to tell you in a minute thank you very much, so I’m a researcher and a clinician, I’m a pharmacist I’m also a sculptor and my research is looking at arts and health it’s actually looking at health architecture and I’m very interested in you know, I also have problems with the title Paintings in Hospitals, I think my sort of observation is people’s journey in health isn’t just in hospitals and I’m very particularly interested in the wider health and social context where health and social care operates so when we look at primary health care and I’m so pleased that you’re looking at GP practices and in fact the most accessed health space we have in this country, and possibly the world, are pharmacies and people access those, not just those who are unwell, but also to prevent the public health interventions, so I’m just very curious and interested in the range of the structure of our healthcare system and that to be connected with our artistic developments and arts practice, I say with a plural is actually a really diverse the possibilities and hospitals have changed in the last 60 years to where we are now and as a health care system and I always feel a bit frustrated that we talk about the hospital as this sort of something that happened a long time ago, we know things are different now, we use health systems and spaces in different ways and I’m looking at co-designing pharmacy spaces with patients and staff, involving artists, architects and the public so this is this will result in a design guide because pharmacies look terrible at the moment, if you visited them recently, they’re suppose you have a consultation room where NHS funded services are delivered but the space is and how comfortable it is – they really are very discomforting and can be quite traumatic as well – those spaces haven’t really been explored and I’m very interested in this experiencial experience of practitioners and patients who use these spaces so I would just like to look at arts in health and social space in a more broader context than what maybe has been achieved so far excellent point and the lady next to you also – lots of you’ve no one to ask questions but I think they’re running out of time – Andrew you’re gonna have the final word – okay Kayleigh Hartigan, I advise the Paintings in Hospitals

finance committee and so unsurprisingly my question’s about money and so, you can collect any sort of data and write reports but what sort of evidence does the department, the Treasury, the government need to see in order to liberate financing? great, so I think we’ve come to the end of our panel discussion and I’m going to answer your question but I want to check whether anyone on the panel wants to make a final point before I do and then I’m going to ask Andrew to sort of close the proceedings but I completely agree with you, I think I think all of this comes down, ultimately, to leadership I think the money is there, I think the government of the last nine years has a lot to answer for and I think it has a lot to answer for because I think they failed to show any leadership in this sort of cultural space one of the worst things they did at the very beginning was to cut Building Schools for the Future which was presented as an austerity cut, we had to save money but Michael Gove, who’s incidentally one of my closest friends in politics, so I know he won’t mind me saying this, needlessly and very stupidly put the boot into architects and gave a kicking to the whole concept of a beautifully designed, carefully thought-out building and indeed knocked one of our country’s most successful professions in the process and yet again set back the cause that I’ve dedicated my political life to which is to put culture at the heart of everything we do, whether it’s our schools, our prisons, our health, our education and anything else that I can think of and I think it’s very frustrating, I think there should be money for the arts in all different aspects and I think that Matt Hancock has shown what a difference leadership can make in the contrast with which he’s approached his job compared to how Jeremy Hunt approached his job and I think you can face down, very easily, the bullies and the naysayers by being brave and showing some leadership but the real leadership in this room is provided by, first of all our brilliant panel, who have dedicated their lives to the arts and I’d like to say a huge thank you to and also the fantastic organisation Paintings in Hospitals so eminently chaired by Andrew Hochhauser three points, number one, we promised you provocation and you got it what food for thought could I say thank first of all to the chair, to my panel members and to the audience for the questions and comments that were made, it’s been an hour and 20 minutes and it’s gone like that – thank you very much could we give them a round of applause? second point, can I offer a provocation of my own? we have heard from the front row, two questions at the very end about money one of the great scandals about our oganisation is that we do not receive one penny of government money, not at all, not under this government, not under Labour governments, we have got no governmental support at all and Ed is right, we need champions because the work that we do is good and meaningful and needs to go on and improve and you’ve got to put petrol in the tank in order to do it and we need champions both locally, nationally and within Parliament to achieve a change in that situation and it’s very important so that’s my provocation and finally, to make closing remarks, could I welcome my fellow trustee Dr Mary Black she is multi-talented, not only is she a doctor, she is a singer, she’s a writer and she’s going to offer you some closing remarks so it’s my great pleasure to welcome you to the Royal College of Physicians of which I’m a Fellow, we just celebrated our five hundred years anniversary – sorry and the college is open for you tonight, take a moment to walk up the

circular route to the top where you’ll pass five hundred years of portraits of our presidents, you may find a few women in there because they let us in recently enjoy the apothecary jars outside, you’ll enjoy this Edmund – fantastic ceramics – the college treasure room is open for your perusal – lots of silver do not take it home please silver, gold, all sorts of precious things you will meet a living treasure of the college in Dr Henry Oakley – is Henry in the room? I think he may be outside – there he is, Henry a living treasure Dr Oakley is a retired doctor who curates the gardens – do not call him a gardener he gets very offended if you do, he curates the gardens and is going to give you short little tours explaining the medicinal and sometimes very toxic plants – do not eat the plants so you’ll enjoy meeting Henry, you will enjoy meeting a fascinating collection – I mean the list for this room is extraordinary, if you see someone wearing a pink badge it means their staff or volunteers or trustees (of Paintings in Hospitals) and they will help you if you’d like to join our mailing list, read about us, we have a book outside, hold the date for the 25th November gala dinner at Drapers’ Hall, it apparently also has a silent auction – I always get worried when I hear that because I think it means you can’t talk but this is not true it’s going to be a glittering affair and also you can join, please join if you’d like to, our patrons or our members list on the subject of leadership, sometimes it feels like a very dark world, I think of public discourse, of politics, I’m not going to mention some of the words, beginning with B, or anything else like that it can be a dark world out there but one of the darkest places and moments I’ve ever seen is Sarajevo during the war where I set up the medical evacuation programme for people who had been wounded and the first time I walked into one of the main hospitals with my flak jacket, my helmet I’d just been shot at and I was very upset and I walked into the main corridor and I met actors rehearsing the musical Hair and I thought this has really turned my ideas on my head and remember this is a hospital with no heating, so they’re rehearsing the musical hair and it made me realise leadership is probably the most important thing, even more than money or funds, it’s commitment, it’s leadership and Edmund I’m reminded of you and your feeling when you walk into a hospital and that musical really transformed the place, as did the surgeon there Abdullah Nakaš, who made in the midst of winter when there was no heating, he made all the doctors do ward rounds once wearing short-sleeved white coats because he thought it would cheer people up and show them that we have a fighting spirit here and we’re humans, we’re all in this together now the man who organised Hair the Musical in Sarajevo Hospital is here tonight he flew in from Bosnia with his wife his name is… Sorry, I get very emotional his name is Dr Bakir Nakaš and that is his wife Dr Amina Nakaš, so if you ever feel that it’s too difficult to do something, just talk to them now, the last thing I would say is Dr Nakaš also organised a celebration once where he thanked, he gave awards to, the ambulance service, the fire brigade, the doctors, the nurses and I was at that celebration and I was kind of a bit surprised to see that he also acknowledged the Sarajevo beer factory for maintaining production of beer through the war and raising everybody’s spirits and on that note, ladies and gentlemen, please join us for refreshments for tonight we celebrate