all right you guys I have a couple of questions but again I really would kind of like this to be interactive and feel free to interrupt ask questions or whatever but I’ll tell you the one thing that we got the most questions on and this is probably one of the sensitive issues for for our brokers in our audience is how you guys are dealing with virgin groups how do we deal with the fact that there are employers out there that may have 200 employees but they’ve been offering benefits to 30 management people and all of a sudden under health reform they have to take all of those people who qualify as full-time employees it absolutely offer some health benefits anyone have any thoughts on how you’re dealing with that yeah I think excuse me I’ve been losing my voice as well I think one of the most important things with these virgin groups is to start the conversation with the group earlier in the process because from a stoploss point of view and I think everyone up here is the same viewpoint if you send in the census of 200 employees and then the actual enrollment comes in at 40 the demographics of that 40 people is gonna be significantly different than how it was rated on the 200 that’s going to cause issues with underwriting whereas if you guys can start the conversations early with the client talk about what the premiums would be talk about what the participant participation would be and get a better idea of how the quote should be submitted I think it will get a much more significant significantly accurate quote from the stop loss marker as well I think the other fundamental issue is that there’s not any data to go off of – so how are we rating these groups I mean what are we going off of here I mean I think Adam had a good point let’s get started earlier on the process and now we can talk about individual underwriting and some of those types of things to you know get theirs accurate of the quote and as aggressive as a quote as we can write from square one rather than you know shooting from the hip so now that’s something to as well as that I’m sure everybody up here seeing a fair amount of those groups at our virgin groups or like Tom said are starting off at 14 going to be adding maybe 100 or 200 people on the plan and we were even actually seeing groups that are a couple thousand lives that are virgin group so you know we can and just like johnny was saying that it’s a manual quote but absolutely send them in it is an option for stop-loss so don’t think that just because they don’t have experience that it’s a no-go so it’s an option send them in and there’s stop-loss for it yeah we’ve we’ve looked at them as well a lot of them actually and I think I think I mentioned it dibs the thing is you’re getting at you’re getting in getting a full census but you have no idea how many people are gonna accept and I think to understand on the front end that could change significantly once you get the final the final count because really all you have to do is offer it to singles and all you have to do is offer it doesn’t mean they have to accept it so you could end up 500 employees out there and 50 of them end up accepting and it’s gonna be a total different group there’s really no there’s no way of knowing then right well I was just gonna add Tom that one of the things that we’ve been talking about for the last two days is information and one of the things I think employers now not so sure about mm life group but if you know the risk you can put your hands around it so we’re actually offering underwriting services for employers that want to go through the process of having their employees fill out questionnaires and then you can really put your hands around the risk yes automatically enrolling everybody but not it’s not in the ERISA plan not next year that’s one of the advantages of self-funding mixture you can still enjoy I tell you another another issue that we have grappled with for a long time is gaps in coverage between the your SPD and the contract your stop-loss contract that you’re being issued in other words there may be limits or exclusions in the stop-loss contract that may not match what you have in your plan document doesn’t happen often but sometimes you end up having a claim that’s non reimbursable because you just didn’t know that there was a gap in coverage how are we as an industry dealing with that how are we you know kind of helping the employer understand if there are gaps in coverage and is there a time that we envision actually adopting the plan SPD is the contract for stop-loss

Steve you wanna answer that well yeah I mean I think knowing for the underwriters standpoint knowing what you’re gonna have in your plan document at the point in time of underwriting is critical I mean I think as you’re having these conversations getting a head start on those conversations you need to think that both the broker and the employer group need to think like the risk taker we get a lot of this activity and we get a sense this and we get a plan of benefit and that’s all where we’re working with the quote and I just encourage you to if if you’re going to incorporate having a conversation if you’re going to incorporate some of these cost containment measures that we talked about in the last two days that’s helpful for the underwriter to know if you know other things about your group that the underwriter would would want to take into consideration share that don’t send us just a census and a plan of benefits tell us how you’re going to manage your plan in the next in the next year and that’s gonna make the underwriter more comfortable so some of those things in the plan document and do any of you here representing your companies actually adopt the SPD as as the as the contract some cases gonna pull it back working tails in some cases what we’ve done where we’ve had a TPA that we’ve got a high number of cases with we’ll look at their plan documents and almost develop with them what their boilerplate plan document is and at that point we’ll go through it pre-approve ahead of time and as long as we know that there is it going to be you know materialistic changes in the plan document from one case to another will agree to mirror their plan doc you need to find material differences um I mean it’s it’s on a case by case basis but the point of the matter is if we can look at it and we’re comfortable with what’s in there in the covers and exclusions we’ll go ahead and mirror it on every case as long as we know there isn’t going to be a significant difference and we agree that this is going to be the plan document that you use for each one of your groups that’s all the ways that we’ve got what you don’t and I’ll just add something on that – is that like Tom was alluding to that your self-funded medical plan is so different than every other coverage you have on your group you know light a group life SUV because that is determining to the employee what’s the benefits going to be covered SPD is going to determine to that employee what’s going to be covered but then like Tom said the stop-loss contract is then going to determine what’s going to be reimbursable so you want those exclusions in your contract because a lot of brokers don’t understand that is that and it’s not a good day when you have that claim denied by your stop-loss carrier so as much as you can you want your stop-loss contract to mirror your SPD and I say the big thing that you want to look at is your contract exclusions because I’m sure all of you have answers but how many of you actually read your stop-loss document and in coverage actually do it because we have a lot of people I’m sure that don’t and then I don’t know for sure I mean obviously a lot of but you know why because you’re smart people because you’re at Cyprus University that’s why you do that there’s a lot of people out there I believe that just don’t do that right have no idea what’s out there correct some will have 2530 exclusions in their stop-loss gonna try yeah most policies are not that long to read so they’re not that and from from companion standpoint we always ensure the document there’s the only exclusion I can think of in our policy would be what would be in a document as for experimental stuff yeah what we do is when we get the plan document in we we review every plan document our claims Department goes through every plan document they try to identify any type of gray area ahead of time and get the conversations going before any type of issue that’s why we always stress the importance of getting a plan document in as quickly as possible we know when it’s a new group coming off fully insured it takes a little more time to get it written we always stress the importance of getting the plan document and so we can look at it so we can get ahead of it in case there’s anything that could cause a problem further down the road I have more questions unless you guys want to go yeah anyone have exclusions from drugs or alcohol now here so you can plan documents but we don’t have it stop I can speak for us we read everyone I have we have a department that does that you don’t read the plan documents yeah I mean I look at the book I think we as an industry have done I think it’s universal week it’s talked about at every conference we are we are trying very hard as an industry to mirror the plan document yes and I think I think it’s standard practice that plan documents will be reviewed and it’s it’s a it’s a partnership work but we are certainly going to make it known to you and we feel there’s a discrepancy between the plan document and the stop-loss policy in fact when you amend your planned we’ll send you a letter

saying that we’ve acknowledged the plan amendment and it’s accepted and you’ll get a formal letter for that there you should be aware brokers in the audience March 27th of this year a lawsuit was filed I forget what state maybe you guys might know it’s Express oil change versus ANB insurance services services a and B is a insurance agency I don’t want to say they’re in Ohio or something I don’t remember what it was but essentially Express oil change is suing their broker for lack of coverage in stop-loss matching their SPD they had an exclusion and the expresso change is like what we didn’t know you know it was a broker’s responsibility to point that out and the the insurance agency asked for a summary judgment and or a dismissal and the courts said no we’re gonna try this so this is important I think yeah I think that’s the piece it goes beyond just the price and and that’s where the value comes into play as regarding how you’re gonna handle the policy hugging our handle the plan review how you’re gonna handle claims you know Tom talked about it the it represents about 10% you know the price on the front end is key but how is everything handled on the back end is probably even more key and is important to understand that as yet work with a stoploss carrier in a relationship top you got a question he wants to know how many people up here actually insured the plan document I can honestly tell you in my 14 years we’ve never didn’t declined a claim that wasn’t described in the plan document it’s because they work with cyber’s benefit administrators it’s all connected everybody agree with that it brings it does happen and the lawsuit that you referenced is an example of that but I do think it’s it’s a testament to who you work with on the side I can tell you every time we issue a policy and I think that standard amongst this group up here we’re ensuring a plan document we’re marrying the plaintiff and we defer if there we regardless of what the language is in the stop-loss policy we will defer to the plan document in terms of claim decisions there’s been a lot of consolidation in the stop-loss market in the last 10 to 15 years as well and I think what you’re seeing now is the stop Luster’s are left are around for a reason and I think in general we do a much better job as an industry in pain claims doing it on a timely basis following the plan document not trying to nickel and dime claims I mean if you do that for very long you’re not in this industry for very long so I think it makes sense that all of us have been around for quite a while in this understand that and it’s it’s you know I think that’s important to note that as well so there it’s not to say there were some problems in our industry regarding plan documents and paying claims in those types of things but I think in general our industry is doing a much better job than maybe it has in the past and the players that were around 15 20 years ago are no longer around that you know handle the claims in a way that created y’all problems on the claims side of it yes that’s a good idea all right so as to know what for each of the carriers what what size groups are sizes it’s about I’ll go first we go down to 25 lives on our traditional stop-loss we have a fully insured look-alike process called level funding now that goes down to ten we haven’t written anything that small yet but that’s an unwritten product and then we go all the way up to whatever but I would say our meet our every size deductible is probably around 150 $180,000 but we go all the way down to 20,000 we we kind of build our reputation in the small market but we’ve kind of as we’ve grown we’ve gotten bigger groups for optimum our minimum lives is 50 but in terms of a sweet spot probably the the size group that’s on average I’d probably say and I’m kind of going off the top of my head you’re probably the the 250 to 500 but at the same hand you don’t know if that’s your sweet spot if that’s or if that’s really the most groups you’re gonna get in that that’s the common size but you know down 250 lives 20,000 and up to a million dollars specific but you know for us personally we we like that let’s say $50,000 specific up to about 150 is probably our spec sweet spot IMG is an equal opportunity underwriter we underwrite all sizes but that being said we do go down to 11 lives and kind of have that’s Krista we built our reputation writing smaller groups as well boredom insurance group we start at 25 lives on new business on renewal of community as low as 20 lives like everyone else will quote up as large as we can be competitive on I’d say our

sweet spot is probably in the 25 to 500 lives our average speck is somewhere between out of 37 and 60,000 we’ve always prided ourselves on being creative solutions for stoploss needs so that’s where our kind of niche has been so so you’re saying 37,000 it’s like a popular people pay attention when you use strange numbers it’s a 13 mile an hour speed limit you notice it more than a 15 so when I say 37 thousand dollar deductible everyone’s like oh he said 37 god it looks I see risk solutions standard security or minimum number lives is 25 and a half spec deductable really starts at 25,000 on up our sweet spot is probably groups in the 75 the 300 life range average spec deductibles tend to run in about the 35 to 100 thousand dollar range so the smaller to medium sized cases is kind of where where we tend to play at HCC life we don’t play favorites either we kind of over the board as far as group size move all the way down to $20,000 spec and 25 lives our average spec deductibles probably right around 80 thousand two hundred and fifty dollars in that sense so no and then and we go all the way up you know to whatever Beck deductible is a group is looking for we do handle groups a little bit differently under 200 lives that are currently full insure fully insured and don’t have experience we have the ability to underwrite those as well so with the concern right now I think is on the on the state side and the regulation and what’s happen there and so we’re a little cautious of the really small groups I mean we still have groups in place that are at fifteen lives 12 lives that sort of thing but definitely monitoring from a state standpoint to see how that progresses as well East Coast underwriters are small should be twenty five lives we go up you know really size they go but uh sweet spots gonna be 25 to about 300 350 really our niche has been 25 to about 200 we’ve got some transitional reinsurance products our good only especially so it kind of falls right in that wheelhouse we really like to help employers kind of you know bridge that gap Louis back would be 20 K and you know look I said I’m falling in that niche by about 20 K to about 100 K so yeah the question the question is lasers and and I would add is is a laser a good thing when when is it a good thing so yeah who wants to kind of tackle app I’ll touch that one does everybody know what a laser is by the way we drove in Rob won’t you just make sure everyone knows what I make it sounds really cool but essentially if you have a group spec for a group $50,000 and you have and on an own ongoing claim that renewal and if you expect that claim we have nurses on staff they’ll look at the claims look at the treatment plan and estimate that from what they know and again it’s it’s it’s an estimation that they think the claims are going to be two hundred thousand if your premium is only a hundred thousand to pay for that you you know it’d be a loss so when it’s a known claim some of the if the carriers in in the industry will apply a higher specific to that ongoing claim that’s higher than the group specific so that’s a laser when they’re good they can be good I’ve had it happen in the past where a laser has been put on a group and that person has gotten off the plan either by by dying unfortunately or they terminate employment and they’re no longer on the plans so in that situation even though there’s a higher spec for that group that group has not had that claim and paid those additional dollars amounts so in that situation a laser can be good without them we do have the option that you can pay a little bit more and have a rate cap and not have a laser at renewal so again you can have that but what we found is a lot of times if the employer group you know the brokers may like those they may not the client goes what I have to pay five percent more I don’t want to deal with it I take the laser so the option is there but it seems like the employer groups don’t want to pay more to have

that protection some do but then again some don’t and I’ll just Anthony I be I’ve been in this business for 14 years but 15 years before that I was TVA myself and back when I first got into the business there was no such thing as laser what happened as his claims became catastrophic and ongoing and large dollar amounts it was either the employer could pay additional premium or we had we figure out a way to help him qualify that risk now I think it all of us up here would take the premium but most employers aren’t one aren’t going to want to do that so there has to be a better solution and that’s how lasers were developed now I can guarantee you that we’ve all set lasers that never really hit but sometimes you get lasers and they blow right through so it’s it’s really there so there’s still a lot of unknown out there I think one of the things in the market about the laser and that doesn’t get discussed because it’s not popular with whichever mgu brings it up but I’m going to when a laser is set usually an in-house nurse or a nurse consulting firm reviews the medical condition of the person for the ongoing claim and they say this person is going to spend $200,000 in the next year if you’re a group with a 50,000 dollar deductible the appropriate laser is really the $200,000 of claims plus the 50,000 dollar deductible it’s not sellable in this market what we’re doing when we’re placing a laser is we’re pretty much saying we’re lasering this individual at 200,000 and we’re pretty much giving them a zero dollar deductible because we’re lasering the one condition they have and then they’re getting a pass on on the rest of the plan this is talked about in every SP ba every conference we go to they talk about how do we get rid of lasers and how do we go back to you know just premium and working through it and that’s something you know that everyone’s working on we like everyone up here I’m sure everyone here offers a no laser product ours is free we don’t charge a premium upsell for it now I’m if we can talk more about it you know off the panel if anyone’s interested but everyone here offers some type of no laser panel and everyone here is looking for a way to solve the problem when lasers come up because we know they’re not popular and and as an additional liability for the group yeah I did and for what it’s worth I I don’t dislike lasers because I think it’s a tool that people can use to mitigate their their fixed costs and we did a study this is not real recently couple years ago we were kind of wondering how stop-loss carrier said lasers and whether or not they ever come to fruition and we had an interesting we took a look at an entire years worth of lasers and we found out that about 40% of the time those people hit their laser amount a forty percent which made me reach the conclusion that that if stoploss carriers giving you a laser you should take it because their premiums are gonna be lower than the otherwise would be and number two a lot of times it is just my opinion I’m not an underwriter God knows but malaise er is often set on someone who’s already incurred all those expenses you know the the bulk of the of the expenses have been incurred and paid for and they’re either gonna die or their or they’re gonna not have that kind of experience is that right yeah I mean I’d agree that for our book of business it’s probably less than half of the time but one thing that makes in in in this these days the delays are a little more predictable is when that person is on dialysis and it’s a chronic condition they’re not endowed like going to to pass away and you know that the dialysis can be anywhere and I’m sure everybody up here is has witnessed it thirty to fifty to maybe sixty thousand dollars a month it’s easy math fifty thousand times twelve it’s not hard to do the math so with something like that it is very predictable what the claims are going to be they could obviously have a transplant rod would you do the math for us it’s it’s two hundred and twenty thousand wait a minute what it’s so so in that situation it can be very predictable but in other things cancers those sort of things it can be a little tricky to try to estimate what the claims going to be I would just add to what Tom had said about lasers and lasers hitting on our block of business is probably about forty to fifty percent of the time they hit and it’s for various reasons those lasers don’t hit and if you don’t laser you’re gonna put it into the premium and if you put it into the premium and that that in that risk goes away you’re still paying the premium on that group and then you’re also starting at a higher level on the renewal next year and very rarely does that go backwards so it’s just a mean it’s just another way to manage the risk I think the key is understanding it understanding what’s out there and getting the information you know obviously the information is the key we have nurses in-house that are looking at this but you know depending on the information sometimes it’s just

pure you know you got a dollar amount you got a diagnosis and they’re just going off industry standards what that is so you know we’ll do everything we can to try to find out what’s really happening with that individual if you guys you know want us to talk to HR people that sort of thing that that’s something that we’re we’re willing to do to try to figure out what that actual risk is going forward I think probably the most dialogue that we have with our TPA partners is coming at renewal time when we have a claim that we’re trying to figure out what the risk is and we’re asked to eat on a daily basis trying to get updating updated information from that person if they’re confined if they’ve been released all of those things is just like we’ve been talking about for the last two days the more you know the better you can evaluate this and it’s sometimes hard to get hospitals and doctors and nurses to communicate with you to give you all that information on a timely basis I would only add that again the problem is next year at renewal you don’t know today what’s going to be there next year in the way of an ongoing claim and if that’s if that’s an uncomfortable liability or uncomfortable uncertainty on the part of the employer there are products out there International Medical Group has a no laser policy that also includes a maximum rate increase and they’re others that here that have said that they also have no laser products so again it’s our industry is responding there are times when lasers make sense there are times when they don’t and their products available that will guarantee that you don’t have a laser at renewal CD that’s a girl I can tell you from from my perspective and I think these guys can all speak for themselves but I actually have groups that I wrote the first year I worked for Montgomery fourteen years and when they have been clean and good and they have a claim we try and consider that because they’ve been with us a long time just to add to that a little bit for us you know we look at it a couple of different ways one with any group we have we want to try to keep it as long as possible that being said you know we look at a couple of different things is that it is it a group with the TPA that we have what we call a block of business with and if we’ve got a group that’s not running well and hasn’t Friedmann for a couple years but the overall block is run fairly well for that TPA that helps us look at that particular case at renewal and say they’re running poorly but the block overall with this TPA it’s a good partner of ours you know what can we do to mitigate some of this increase what can we do it you know help out the group but also help out the TPA retain the case so it’s really more about a relationship and trying to look at it beyond just that one case now if it’s a situation where we have just one case it’s with a TPA or a broker and the group’s run poorly for several years and you know the loss ratios are well over a hundred percent it makes it a much tougher situation for us ultimately we all have our own particular target in terms of what we have to reach in terms of a loss ratio in a group but I don’t think any of us look at this and say you know after two years or what-have-you regardless of what the loss ratio is that we want to get rid of any group or or look at it from that perspective I’d never heard that I’ve been in the business for 17 years I don’t think you know I’ve ever heard of anybody really looking at way again for us and it gets more about trying to maintain a long-term relationship with the producer that we’re partnered with whether it’s the TPA or the broker and looking at it from a little bit bigger picture perspective for these individual groups that are not running well at a particularly renewal I think you hit on something really important we said peaks and valleys and looking at a long term I mean essentially self funding should be a long-term solution for your group health plan so I mean we take that into consideration with stop-loss and you know what no means we want to jettison a group out if they’ve had a poor year from a loss ratio standpoint you know you want to look at a long term and like Chris said I mean we have we’ve cases as well that we’ve held on to you know basically since our inception and I think just goes to show that you had a long term plan kind of take that into account from a stoploss perspective and you know groups are gonna have good years groups you’re not bad years so and some of it is our responsibilities of TPA to to kind of act as the conduit between the group and the stop-lossed people and saying look you can you you can’t get a hundred percent of your money back this year let’s talk about a

more long-term right that’s kind of a the strategy but I would add to that to just I mean our goal our goal is to ruin our business and we look at various factors as well but I would say one thing that we definitely look at is what are we getting for rate increases year over year you know our goal is to get a fair increase year over year and it makes it much easier when you do have a bad year to to help renew that case fairly you know you know if we’re not getting increases or you know going backwards on the case and then there’s a bad year it’s probably going to be looked at a little bit differently than if we were getting fair increases over time as well so okay okay the good question is as we’re looking at partnering with a stoploss carrier maybe in a specific geography where we’re at do we look at their experience in one area or another yeah the industry geography like I guess the answer to that is is kind of I’m gonna hedge on this no basically I mean I what we have been successful at doing is identifying people with whom we want a partner because we have had good experience and we’ve you know we’ve got millions of dollars worth of experience sitting at at this table that said an interesting phenomenon and maybe this is how you guys can answer it’s an interesting phenomenon happens in in our business and that is we find one stop-loss carrier who’s horrible in one state and awesome at another just because they’re underwriting manual allows them to to be that so I think it’s it kind of works itself out organically that way because we’re getting quotes you know on spec rates and a greats and attachment point factors that are really great in one place another why is that you guys tell me why the hell you are different in different places I think basically there’s more than one manual out there depending on the manual you’re using and you know your your ability to feel comfortable but where that case is located right so do you use different males um I think there’s probably different manuals at this table yeah it has we subscribe to a manual not sure which one it is but there’s a tillinghouse there’s there’s a number of different Elling I say to you you’re consistently in you know the state of Nebraska your rates are non-competitive but in the state of Oregon it’s probably more related to a zip code thing and I can I’m gonna hedge a little bit on this because I’m not an underwriter so I’m with Chris I mean it’s it I think really is contingent upon the zip codes I mean certain states you could be you know there could be a little bit more no man’s land think we said Nebraska I mean there’s likely to be you’re saying that people from Nebraska they don’t know man that is a good state I was referring to was certain pockets of certain states being more populous than others and that kind of dovetails into there being more industries you get more concentration of certain industries and certain zip codes and you kind of are able to see that trend if you will so you’re factoring that into what Chris said about the manual and it’s kind of a two prong approach so I guess I’m gonna kind of hedge here too when it comes down to manuals I could go into it in detail I’d need a white board about the size of this backdrop and some dry erase markers and we’d prefer not to here basically it would start with the loonie lunacy of Actuaries and I can honestly say that because my father is an actuary and he’s a lunatic so what we have when when the manuals are being developed they gather claim costs from every zip code and then they crunch the numbers over and over again and and we’ve got a manual with an actuary and the guy looks like Bob the painter who used to be on PBS it’s got the crazy hair we’re fortunate enough where we can adjust our specific manual to what we’ve seen specifically so our manual is then adjusted even further when it comes down to why is 1 mg different than another in a certain zip code it comes down to the lunacy of the actuary who made the manual great yeah and I’ll just I’ll just add one more thing and that is that everybody appeared that their manual like he likes been said it’s actuarial driven but for every 3 digit zip there’s a factor for that area you know maybe here in Vegas might be 0.9 in Omaha it might be 0.5 from there it’s also there’s a network factor so when you start combining those factors is when you start getting those variances in a rate so everybody up here you might be certainly competitive in a certain state or a certain city and you go to another state and your rates are really high and that’s just the way the clerk of the manuals work okay so there is no good answer to that no they’re real

I will just add though that I think we can all everybody agree it’s up here I don’t have anything that’s 100 percent of manual so I think our block of business probably averages between somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of the manual number that would come up in a certain area based on network based on you know things that are putting a plan to control cost all right with this I’ll see now you just took that guy’s question I was my eyes are crooked you know you should be able to first of all whether whether you have a $5,000 deductible or $2,000 deductible doesn’t determine whether that claim is going to be a hundred or two hundred thousand dollars so on the specific site I agree with you on the aggregate side if you’re going from a 500 to a $3500 HSA there should be a significant discount and if you’re not getting that this is being filmed sandy so you need to bang the drum a little bit because I I can tell you that we would do that and I think everybody would say that up here but on this specific on this specific premium side I believe there’s about from the from the richest plan design to the the weakest plan design there’s probably be about 10% swing and respect premiums on based on plan design on the the attachment point is where you’re gonna see all the changes and if you’re like I said if you’re not seeing them then then something’s wrong all right we got do you do have another question right are you me from you’re from no man’s land I can’t believe you made it would you bring a horse and buggy here I don’t know anyone up here who does it in addition to the specific no and there can be differences in specifics between opinions of nurses and is in the information that’s that’s not uncommon for one of us to get a piece of business over somebody else because our laser was a little more competitive and and vice versa and and also too that from my experience the underwriters who are underwriting the case the nurses might give them a range of what they think the claim is going to be but it’s you know underwriters are human and if they had a case that they underwrote that was a similar condition that blew up huge they’re gonna they’re gonna if they if that just happened the day before they’re probably gonna go nurses said 200 this other claim blew up I might go a little higher so the underwriters are are human and they they will react to let’s say something they had in a similar situation that might have you know in the opposite way if it happened that it wasn’t that big they might go lower but if something went bad then they might go a little higher than what the nurses estimated all right I got it but tennis I know there’s some more questions but I just want to get to one thing before you know it this gets a little bit too late Steve from IMG said something earlier about about stop-loss carriers and MG use responding to market pressures and coming up with with new products and services and different ways of doing things and one of the things I wanted to do because this is a great frustration of ours as a sales organization why sort of give you an opportunity to hear from these guys about some new or different types of products that may be available to you if you guys don’t mind giving away industry secrets because you know how secretive this industry is but but our frustration is that often we get opportunities to sell stuff that’s different than the traditional stop-loss policy yet it never gets to the ears and eyes of the client so we want to talk about that so you guys willing to kind of sort of like your sales pitch the opportunity but make it like one minute I hit on this briefly several minutes ago but as I was mentioning before we have an aggregate only program it’s a really great bridge product as I’d like to refer to it as so on cases that are small to medium sized so you know 25 to maybe 200 lives that are coming off fully insured for the very first time so maybe they’ve been fully insured for you know 20 years they’ve they’ve just now decided to maybe take the leap into self funding but they’re a little apprehensive they understand that there’s some risk they understand there’s gonna be you know a little bit

extra work so what we basically do is we underwrite the case as if it were a fully a fully insured give them aggregate only stop-loss policy and essentially they’re just cutting one check each month like they’d be doing to a fully insured we’re actually using the attachment point factors to process those claims and they’re paying their premiums as normal so has very similar feel to a fully insured policy but again it’s a self-funded plan really the goal is long term third fourth year while they’re in the aggregate only program then transition them over to a traditional stop-loss policy you know they’ve got their feet wet they understand what they’re getting into from an account management perspective they’re ready so that’s that’s really our big hitter and in fact Drew and I from Cyprus we’ve recently come up with somewhat similar product but it’s actually more of a level premium that incorporates a traditional stop-loss policy so there is a spec in an AGG they’re using the attachment point factors to again fun to claims but we’re giving a little bit of discretion on how much they want to fully fund each month so they might not be comfortable fully funding that entire corridor we say hey what are you comfortable funding and then kind of take it on a case-by-case basis and stop-loss kicks and if they blow through it on any given month and again a nice little transitional product to get them thinking for self so I 5 I was like two minutes I’m sorry it’s your your the the client is ultimately responsible for the claim posed with that money right it for the premium or the premium equivalent goes into the checking right of the climb a bank account is used and we have you only access to that account so if they do blow through their monthly attachment point ECU kicks in within 24 hours and starts footing the bill oh and on the your product your elective just also mentioned that they keep 100% of the reserves you know the year thank you we also have a underwriting methodology to deal with fully insured groups obviously the challenge with fully insured groups is you can’t get experience and so for two hundred lives and laughs that are currently fully insured we we have an underwriting methodology and approach to be able to underwrite that and hopefully move them over to self money and obviously I think we’re seeing a lot of that right now and it’s only going to increase as we go throughout the rest of the year the other thing that we’ve just developed and rolled out is a captive product obviously that’s a little bit different you’re starting to see the captive word out in the marketplace a lot more it’s not for everybody but it is a turnkey approach to the captive world it’s a producer based sell and then we’ve recently opened it up to do one-off cases as well so that’s something that if you desire more information on that want to have a discussion we can definitely talk that through as well in more detail we’ve got a couple of new products that we are in the process we’ve rolled one out the other one’s gonna be rolled out here fairly soon the first one is a self-funded transplant carve out policy and basically you’re all familiar probably with the transplant carve out programs they’re fully insured there’s a couple of carriers out there that have been doing these for a number of years but our approach is going to be a self-funded Transplant carve out it’s gonna run about twenty to fifty percent of the cost of what a fully insured transplant carve-out is it’ll basically mirror the stop loss policy so it’ll pick up at the spec deductible and it’s the backbone with the trans my network will be life track so we partnered with life track on that and now we’re real excited about it because I think we’re probably the one right now that’s offering a self-funded transplant carve out and there’s no no no underwriting anything like that it’s follows that the the disclosure process with our stop loss policy it also can be sold with our competitors stop loss as well but there will be a 12-month pre X on it in that situation so that’s one of the products that’ll be coming out probably within the next month or Taylor real close to rolling that out right now the other one is we are in the captive space as well have been for about a year and a half to two years it’s called HC captive solutions and we’re in the process of partnering with certain TPAs Cyprus is one of them that were partnered with with this product and again it’s geared for the fully insured marketplace for these groups that are looking to get into cell funding but want to remove some of the volatility and cell funding our product is going to be geared for really the 50 to 500 life groups and so if you’ve got an interest in that we can have a separate side discussion about it but again we’re a little bit selective about you know who we’re partnering we don’t want to just flood the market and work with it you know a bunch of different people in a given state so but that is definitely out there right now and we’ve been

writing that for quite a while alright I’ll try and be brief since this is getting like a presidential debate with everybody that no words and we also we can write fully insurer group takeover with no claims experience we’ll do individual underwriting we say hundred lives or lower we can go a little bit over 100 like I said before we have a no laser product that does not have an additional need for premium more details available off the stage so don’t give all the secrets away we have as we spoke yesterday as Tom is one presenters talked about how keeping the clients involved after a claim hits the spec level is important because it’s important on your renewal to control costs we have also a product where if the client is willing to stay involved after the spec deductible is their premium by 20% again more details are available off the stage I mean those are some of our products I think make us a little bit more unique we try and be very creative instead of lasers if there’s a group with multiple lasers we can write an algorithm specific on named people so we can kind of bundle multiple large claimants together and give them one deductible for multiple people it’s creative way to avoid having like three lasers an International Medical Group we have put a lot of effort and thought into trying to respond to that part of the market but is in the greatest need right now and that is groups that are gonna have fewer options as the packet is fully implemented and are fully insured today and we’re we have developed a product that we believe takes the what-ifs out of self funding for those employers that are that are fully insured of not considered self funding before we talked a lot about those what-ifs this morning lasers we have a product that does not laser and has a maximum rate increase to it we’ve talked about we’ve talked about terminal liability if your and your fully insured you’re on an incurred contract one of the what-ifs of self funding is what happens when I want to no longer be self-funded or if I can’t be self-funded we have multiple terminal liability options available from a a true terminal liability option that is invoked only if it’s needed to 12 15 12 18 and incurred contracts we’ve talked about the what ifs of cash flow so if you want if you like the in the fully insured world of being able to write one check a month and then not worrying about additional cost there are cash calls for the remainder of the month we have a kind of aggregate accommodation products that guarantee the advance of an accommodation payment as often as you need it within the contract period and within 72 hours so if you have if you blow through your cumulative monthly attachment point in the first week of a month weekend weekend within 72 hours make an accommodation for that first week and then your TPA can file additional accommodation requests throughout the rest of that month so it truly is a product that allows you to write one a month and then wait and then forget about it until next month so we’re just trying to take some of those what-ifs out of the stock of the idea being self-funded and and allow a product to work and sell funding plan to work much like a fully insured would with all the advantages of self-funded so I mentioned before that adopted in the case when a client as a bad claim here we do have a as some up error as well a rate cap with a no laser option and but we’ve introduced last year in the fourth quarter is that kind of the the opposite of that is that when they have a good claims here we have a premium refund option that will give cash back to the client when they have a favorable claims here so that was just to introduced a few months ago so again you can and they can have both options so in a case of a bad year they can have a cap no laser and a good year they can get premium back mcgunn raised on by companion life and companion life is a is one of the bigger carriers in the industry we offer pretty much everything everybody’s talked about up here the other things that we also offer and we think we’re competitive in his life disability and all those ancillary products that you can bundle right together with your stop-loss so that’s something to consider we’ve been actually been doing a lot of that lately and I guess on our on our level funding which is kind of what everybody’s referring to as an aggregate only but I’m fully sure to look like the the administrator hands hangs on to the claims fund and the premium just comes to us and so that gives a little local control to the TPA for those funds instead of sending it to a bank somewhere else great alright thanks you guys and we’re up against it so I would ask any one of you who are gonna be around after the final we’ve got two more presentations you want to kind of come back up here and continue this discussion we’re happy to do that if you’re willing to do that awesome all right thanks to all of these guys appreciate you