good day to you all and welcome to this motek webinar my name is Duane Mitchell the subject for today is what is a motek power distribution module today we will explain what a PDM is what its advantages are and the typical applications we’d find in the field we’ll also compare the wiring of some simple devices using conditioned conventional methods and also how we could do this with a PDM we’re going to discuss the functions found in racing and road applications and we’re going to take a look at the PD M manager software also have a look at how we can get extra output current and finally we’re going to cover the four different EDM model variants just a quick mention about motek this company it was started in 1987 by Richard Bendel and it’s been in the forefront of motorsport for the last 23 years our products are basically focused on engine management and data acquisition and we’re based in Melbourne Australia where we do all our design and manufacturing the building you’re looking at is our research and development centre which is where we are currently located and we have about 40 staff working in this building on development we have 200 dealers worldwide and we are in the forefront of both racing and Road applications increasingly now ok our team on the ground consists of seven people in in our department I’m Duane Mitchell I’m on the lower right-hand side of that screen when you’re dealing with us as support staff you’ll be speaking to one of us or emailing us and we all have experience in virtually all of these products while some of us do have specialities as well okay so what is a PDM a Power Distribution module it’s a device that’s designed to replace normal fuses and relays and to simplify wiring but also adding a great deal of extra functionality we can use this device to switch outputs and hang on a set forgive me for a moment I’ve just got a delay in my monitor here so hopefully things might be slightly less silly okay so PDM is a device that allows us to control numerous outputs and at the same time customize how this happens and gives us greater see greater simplicity in the wiring looms and also allows us to perform multiple functions from one device effectively it’s like a hub that where all of the inputs and outputs are controlled from this device and we can optimize how the Hathor driver interacts with the car and minimize the amount of driver attentions that that’s required to perform some functions okay there are many advantages of using a Power Distribution module firstly we can have multiple control strategies for for individual devices for example we can use fuel pump control with multiple input parameters for example whether the fuel pressure is operating correctly and whether these supplementary fuel pumps are required and all these functions can be controlled without the drivers intervention secondly the device itself operates like a digital fuse for each of the outputs and that means that multiple again multiple conditions can be set and this will allow failsafe operation in a racing situation where a normal fuse would we trip out and disable the car because this is a computerized device it can monitor all of the voltages and currents for each of the outputs and inputs and this information is used to make decisions at a very high speed and allow constant retrying for example of faulty outputs and this adds to the protection and reliability of the device whereas effectively can allow a vehicle to operate in a linked mode where again a normal race car might just simply be disabled and stopped on the side of the road normal applications would include the

same all of the racing applications that our devices are normally used for so the benefit of the PD M is that we can have a smaller lighter application we can simplify wiring and this applies to virtually all forms of motorsport and is also extremely useful in Road car applications now we’re just going to take a quick look at how you might see a normal wiring application versus what a what a PD M is going to offer you now this is of course a very simple diagram what we have on the left is how we would condition conventionally wire a few simple devices such as a fuel pump and a thermo fan and we would normally have an ECU that has individual output control for each of these devices and then that that goes via relay and perhaps vie refused for each of the individual devices so firstly what we’re seeing is a fair bit of wiring and a fair bit of high current wiring and then we have a bunch of individual relays and fuses on the right hand side we have the same functionality delivered by the PD M in this case we only require one very large power feed into the PD M from the battery and then this sources all of the required outputs including fuel pump thermo fan and the ECU power itself as you can see there are no relays and there are no fuses because both of these functions are performed by the PD M device so allows us to even in a simple application we can reduce our wiring complexity but it doesn’t take much imagination to see that if you had a very large complex wiring room this PDM is going to give you a massive reduction in wiring so now we’re just going to cover quickly a few things that you might typically see in a race application and these are all functions that the PDM is again very capable of and offers a great deal of flexibility firstly we can switch to the reserve fuel pump very easily this might be something that normally the driver would have to be alerted to and throw a second switch on the dash if they lose fuel pressure or engine power the PDM can monitor the fuel pressure and it can also monitor the cake the status of each of the pumps and if the main pump starts to fail or is for some reason causing a short circuit the PDM can then start using the reserve pump in addition it can it can notify the driver by using an alert on the dashboard but it can also run these functions in the background another simple function is a turbo or engine cooldown timer this is typically used when you know you stopped the car we don’t we want the engine to run while the turbo cools down and these functions can easily be run by PDM we can run timed outputs which control relays when the ignition is turned off in these time two outputs will retain power to the fans for as long as it’s required and eventually stop the engine as well another simple output function which is made a lot more flexible with with a PD M is normal pump and fan control now typically engine cooling fans just have thermostats or other such temperature sets if you have a PD M you can set both the high and low temperature points for your fans or perhaps if you use an electric coolant pump the same thing could apply to that and the benefit for this is that there are many race engines that have an optimum temperature for example with Superbike engines that are very high efficiency engines most of them run maybe 75 degrees but there are some engines that would be better at 85 and so you can quite simply at the PDM to to control either the electric water pump if you have one all the fans to keep the engine in the sweet spot which means you will operate at the best temperature with the minimum power loss another typical race function is to have flashing headlights when you’re passing and this just is simply activated by pushing one switch and the PDM takes over the the role of flashing speed if you like and therefore the driver doesn’t have to think about that they just hit the button and they get a multiple flash on their headlights same thing applies to rain lights this can be done automatically by the PDM numerous inputs can be used for it to s establish that there’s a rain condition and you can flash the tail lights in conjunction with stop lights if they’re used another simple but very practical feature is an auto start function the point of all of these functions is that they can be customized and programmed by you and so that you don’t that they’re not obligatory but that you can have all of this flexibility built in the auto start function simply allows you to press the the starter button and the engine is cranked automatically until the CU

detects the run RPM at which point the PDM will stop cranking the engine a secondary benefit of this is a stall start function which may be used in rally cars for example where a combination of pedals if the driver stalls in a corner they can just stomp the pedals and the engine will restart automatically now these are the again these are things where the driver intervention can be quite simple but the PDM can conduct a number of operations at the same time okay so now we’ll look at some functions we might find on road cars because we also have a lot of practical applications for PDM in road cars the first one is is a way of using an immobilizer function that might seem as essentially that you can use to incorporate odd switching devices to operate as an immobilizer for example you the horn button held down for a given amount of time to enable the ignition another obvious of applications operating indicators the normal indicator stalk switches are just a street a straight switch and the PDM has programmable flashing capabilities and that means you don’t need a flashy unit so that’s a simple function but that can actually be combined demonstrate just a little bit later how we can use that in a dual function stoplight another thing that in some American cars in particular is quite frequently seen so the PDM can also turn off headlights and courtesy lights and such things in the same way that a normal car might do that and that means that we can use a PDM in a normal car and replicate all of the functionality of a typical road car which is quite a fit a useful feature now the other thing the PDM is very good at is in their in the situation where you have for example an alternator failure the PDM can use a keepalive function whereby the important things such as the engine the cooling system and so forth are powered but if the PDM can remove power from such things as the subwoofers or the air-conditioning system and therefore the car effectively has a limp home capability that would otherwise being there now we just quickly have a look at the physical or electrical way these these devices work effectively we have a large number of inputs and outputs each each of the pdms uses a different number of inputs and outputs and we’ll cover that a little bit later but what we’re looking at is electronic switching which means that the switch input to the device is the same as you would find in many ECU’s where there’s a resistor of about 10k resistance which go to the 12 volt of the battery and then what you have all the input pin is there for a voltage which you can simply switch to ground in the same way that a set of ignition points would switch to ground and that is the signal that the PDM uses to establish whether the switch is opened or shut so that again is the way that most ECU’s would input pins as well now one of the benefits of this is that we actually only require a very small amount of current for this to be functional in the vicinity of one or two milliamps and that means that again we can use very small gauge wire for this sort of input wiring the outputs are effectively a p-channel MOSFET which you might normally know as a high side driver so these are the these are the devices that perform as if they are a relay but of course they have the added ability of monitoring current and then being used to control in a sophisticated fashion what is happening so that is what the device does that has a combination of inputs and outputs and the benefit is that the device is actually normally fully powered all of the time but it has a shutdown mode a sleep mode where it’s really only pulling very few it’s about five milliamps in the sleep mode so even in normal Road car you can Lesley leave these things connected all the time when you close the car off shut the ignition and leave the car five minutes later the BDM will go into the sleep mode but even under normal operating conditions with the exception of the actual output current the device itself only uses a very small amount of current the other benefit is that the device has very low on resistance on the output drivers typically ten milli ohms which is ten one thousandths of an ohm and therefore there is extremely high current capability and very little heat generated in the device itself so this is just a reliability factor but it’s also a way of getting a lot of control with very little heat ok so again if we

look at the the the output device what we’re looking at is effectively a digital fuse now the the benefit of this is that unlike a normal fuse which will evict we will trip out as soon as the current is exceeded these devices of course will do that but they have a great deal of Tolerance which we can program them into program into them and therefore we can effectively put delays or over current through childs which means that we can we can get a lot more sophisticated control of each output so the fuse will shut down if the current is if the current goes over the current limit but with certain conditions but the principle benefit of this digital fuse is that we can set retries or we can turn the power back on to this output after a certain delay and unlike a normal fuse which once it’s blown has to be physically replaced so that the the benefit of this is that again in a racing application you may find there is a wiring fault or a fuel pump fault the EPDM will continue to try and keep these devices alive even if it’s only sufficient to get the car back to the pits but again we’re not looking at a total being NF on the car so the output of this fuse can therefore tolerate over currents for a short amount of time and again this is a programmable feature and that means that we can allow our wiring system to work much closer to its rated levels if you like because we can we can set current limits very close to what the current might be expected to be and if for example we have a temporary stall and a fuel pump where there’s a large amount of current drawn for a very short time again a normal normal fuse would simply blow and you’ve lost your fuel pressure but the PDM will firstly tolerate a very short current surge and secondly if it does turn off the fuel pump it can be set to retry any number of times and within a very short interval so that means that you can tolerate a certain amount of physical abuse if you like and the PDM is still going to recover the situation and keep the car running ok so now we’re going to take a fairly quick look at the PD and manager software I’m not going to explain how all of this is set individually because that’s a rather large topic and we will cover that in a later webinar however what we’re going to do is just quickly go through a few of the screens and show you what sort of functionality we have and principally what we’re trying to demonstrate here is just how flexible this system is so the idea of this software is that it allows us to design a unique setup for an individual application and we call these setups configurations and effectively you can custom design your setup for each whatever whatever the racing application you have so each of the input devices which can be the switches or can messages and the output devices such as relays or pumps can be named any way you like this is a very flexible system and it allows you to use normal English to describe each component so what that allows us to do is to group components together for example switches or fans and then they are stored in a hierarchical fashion and in this example we’re looking at an engine as their main group and then we have a bunch of fans and in that group we have an output fan output and a fan switch so these channels are all just named in normal English and they are in a hierarchical sense in the same way that the dots separate each of these sub groups if you like and then any of these names that we create as we’re setting up our configuration are then flowing through to the rest of the device and this is particularly useful when you’re trying to set up things like input conditions because you can name the devices as they actually are and so it’s very logical when you’re trying to set up complicated logic commercials okay so now the main benefit of this system is that firstly we can see everything that’s going on whilst the device is connected to a PC and this is very similar screen to what we call a view screen in our ECU products so this one screen shows you all the inputs all of the outputs and the individual and the actual status of the PDM as a whole so what we’re looking at here is just the the input pins you can see the body horn switch again we’re using this hierarchical naming convention and then on the right hand side we can see the pin that it’s assigned to on the device we can see its logical state and we can also see the actual voltage on the pin so clearly this is very powerful way of seeing what’s happening on the device at any time okay so the other thing we of course want to look at is the outputs and here we can the fuel pump output which is the typical use of this device we can see whether it’s the output pin that it’s

been assigned to whether it’s functional we can also see the voltage the current and on the right hand side we have a rolling graph which shows us the overall load condition of this output now I’m not going to explain this a great deal of detail but it refers to what we talked about earlier with the capability to accommodate surge currents for example without tripping out and so this is like a running average of how much load is on that particular channel and again you can see lower down they’re not highlighted but we have other channels that are showing orange or red and that means that they are closer to the they’re approaching the limits that have been set again this is all extremely useful information and all available on one screen finally we just have a quick look at the status some of the status information and again we’re looking at this is for the actual PDM device itself so we’re seeing the overall battery voltage the temperature of the unit we’re seeing how much total current has been switched by the device and whether there are any error conditions now the whole point of this is that all of this data is continuously are available on the PC screen and it’s also continuously available as kanda and that’s extremely useful because it can be transmitted and we can use this data in other applications in other words we can link the PDM to ECU’s and dashboards for a can we won’t go into a description of how can work so i’m sure you’re all familiar and let’s just say it’s a very it’s a two wire communications bus that runs at high speed it’s highly resistant to noise and interference which is why it’s used on vehicles and it allows a vast amount of data to be shifted on a multi drop bus so the PD M is an active part of that bus it can both receive and transmit on can and therefore all that information we’ve just seen is all available to other devices that might be on the can bus so typically in our case we might be sending this to one of our ADL devices and we can log all input and output channels both for voltage current and for status like for diagnostic values as well so this this information is of course extremely useful for analysis after the event and we can see everything that’s happening within the PDM secondly we can use this same data to set off – lights either either immediately via outputs selected from the PD M but they can also be transmitted to other devices such as in ADL – which has similar set of trigger outputs so in other words we’re sharing the data around a switch that goes into the PDM can also be monitored and used by either an ECU or a dashboard as if it was wired directly into the ECU or the dashboard finally the thing we can do with data of course is we can have alarms for the the driver what we call driver alerts and therefore again we can the the devices on the can bus can make these decisions and only when the critical piece of information do we need to alert the driver so this is all done with the great deal simplicity by this device ok now again we’re trying to get through this this software fairly quickly so I’ll only be brief what we’re back in the main screen here and what we’re looking at is the global setup so normally when you were about to write yourself a custom configuration for this device the global setup is the first thing you’d quickly do which which is how you select which PDM version you’re going to use you can see that you can assign can input and output addresses so that we don’t have multiple devices clashing on the can bus and we can also set a couple of status things on the output pins so this is all sort of an overall setup condition for the PD M and then we will go on to the individual components that these custom setup is going to entail so the first thing we need to look at is input pins each of the pdms has a different number of input pins but they all function in the same fashion again we were looking at a pin that has a resistive up to the plus supply rail and therefore anytime you need to actuate input you switch it to ground using a normal single pole switch so these could be for example clutch switches brake switches dashboards which is fuel pressure sensors all sorts of things can be used and we have a lot of control over how these inputs can be used to trigger other conditions or to operate other outputs for a start we can decide whether the polarity is going to be high or low on the input which is a straightforward operation we can set voltage levels for the on and the off conditions and we can also set time delays for the on and off conditions and this is all done very quickly and easily in in many cases we would just use

default settings because if we’re looking at a simple switch input we don’t need a lot of other complexity but the possibility is there to have quite sophisticated triggering conditions now of course apart from wired inputs one of the great advantages of the PDM is that because it can share data with the other devices on the can bus again for example the ECU or a dashboard we can use data or status information from these other devices as if they were a hard wired input into the PDM once again what this allows us to do is to simplify our wiring significantly and use for example brake switches to do various functions in various devices so we can connect to an arm to any of our normal the ECU hundred series devices or to a dash for example and therefore something like a brake switch or a brake pressure sensor can be transmitted on the can bus into the PDM and then a similar set of input conditions can be set now one of the real benefits here is that we can have received channels coming as switch or status information if you like which would be example a brake switch but we can also monitor actual real values for example fuel pressure or brake pressure so we can have sensors that are connected to our ECU which are then transmitting their real values on the canvas and we can set separate thresholds for example for brake pressure lines within the PDM itself so this gives us an incredible amount of flexible the other thing we can do with an is because we have the ability to combine conditions to make decisions we can bring in candy for example engine rpm and ground speed and we can combine this data in numerous ways before we make a decision about what’s to be done so again having a can input capability is extremely powerful and it’s a big bonus with these devices okay so that the the objective of having these multiple inputs and these multiple devices is that we can make sophisticated decisions on on how we’re going to control our output channels by combining a number of input conditions for example switches pressures engine speed road speed any number of these things can be combined and there are two ways we can do this we can do this individually for inputs or outputs but we can also have global conditions which is another set up screen in the energy of software and by having a global set up condition you can therefore control multiple inputs sorry multiple outputs from the same condition for example you may have some warning condition that needs to both turn on a secondary pump and illuminate a dashboard light and so you can put this in as a global condition and then both of the outputs can refer to that condition so our our software allows a great deal of flexibility here so the conditions of the decisions that define how we control the channel each of these decisions can be a very complex or a fairly simple operation and operations are the if you like the individual components of how these decisions are made so the benefit of having this condition structure is again that we can use same condition to do multiple tasks these are calculated 50 times a second which in in the case of most control strategies is extremely quick first if you consider that we’re looking at things like brake lights fuel pump SATs so forth we that’s a very high speed to give us very good control now I’ll just quickly describe on the right hand side this is our condition a condition setup screen this is just a fairly straightforward function but one that would normally be rather difficult what it is is we have a number of for example American cars that don’t have indicator lights they simply have a stop light and what we would like to do is have a function whereby the rear brake lights also operate as indicators so what that means is we have an indicator switch and we have a brake switch and what we’ve if you look down what we’re seeing is the right brake light will come on if the brake switch is true meaning that it’s the brake switch is on and also if right flashing is false now that might sound a little bit odd but what that means is we’ve we’ve already set up a condition called right flashing which means when you turn on your indicator it generates a pulse stream which is the the normal indicator blinking rate and we’ve called that right flashing so I’m using this condition to decide when my brake light is on if the right flashing is not on then the brake light just simply switches on if the right flashing is also turned on what my function now allows me to do is actually blink the brake light off so so if I have my brakes on and my indicators on what I’m

seeing is a constant brake light which blinks off momentarily now the second condition below that is when I’m not using the brake light and it is effectively the inverse so therefore when my indicator is turned on but there is no brake light I want my normal flashing rate to show on the same output so you can see from this that this is a quite a sophisticated way to get multiple functions into a single light and in fact we have a number of different versions let’s say a number of options in the software where we can define this same condition using different operators so it’s a very complicated but at the same time flexible system ok now we again we’re not going to spend a lot of time on the operators but this just gives you a demonstration of how many different possibilities there are so if we just consider the example of two inputs we may have two different switches and we have logical operators so the first table you can see there is the equivalent of an end table what that means is we can have for example two switches and only if both of those switches are on will the output be on and that that is the bottom condition where we have true true and true okay so we can have multiple logical operators we can use true false and which is the one we’re looking at or exclusive or and that exclusive or is another function that would allow us to do the same break light with indicator function that I’ve described before okay now the graph on the right hand side is called a conditional operator and what this allows us to do is monitor for example current or break pressure and we can set this output to only be active if the value matches perfectly a particular value so in this case we’re looking at a value of 4 that will turn the output on or make it true if you like and now if we go down to the middle one this is a time function and what we’re looking at there that is the left middle one I should say so what we’re looking at here is is functionally what we would use for a flasher system it’s actually called a flash function so when I turn my input switch on I can program the rate that the output switch is on and off both in terms of the on time and the off time and so this is how we would drive a set of flashes and again what we’re looking at in a simple switch on the input but this output function is going to give us some flexibility okay now on the right hand side we have what we call an edge based triggering I won’t go into great deal of detail here again what we’re looking at is just the fact that there’s a vast number of possibilities for individual conditions and all of these operators can be combined for more complicated functions the last one is a little bit more complex it’s a hysteresis example hysteresis is simply a switching function that has both a high and a low point similar perhaps to what you would do with a an engine fan so we have a high temperature there and a low temperature once we reach 70 degrees for example where our output turns on and then once we get below 40 degrees the output turns off so that’s what hysteresis is it’s simply the ability to have two different switching points controlling the same output so again what we’re looking at is very sophisticated set of combinations and they can all be used together in multiple multiple modes if you like to get quite sophisticated control okay so now we’re going to look at how the outputs are set up of course each of the devices you have connected is going to have different requirements and so the individual outputs have to be configured for which device they have connected to them clearly a blinking indicator bulb is going to have a different requirements to a you know a high pressure fuel pump for example so each of the output pins is therefore defined named in a simple term for example lights high beam again we can use simple English or whatever our chosen language is and we have a completely unambiguous name for what that function is going to perform below that we can set how much current we’re going to allow we’re going to be set we’re going to set whether we’re going to allow the digital fuse to retry if it trips out and we’re going to say how long it needs to wait for before it does that and also how many of how many retries we’re going to allow so again we can set up quite our elaborate profiles here and that means for the fuel pump is the perfect example because they are frequently things that fail and this stretch this structure allows us to keep them alive at for the absolute longest amount of time now what you see at the bottom of this screen is another example of our condition setting so as lot as well as our global conditions we can set individual conditions just for this particular output and once again

it’s composed of the same operators and input and output functions that are combined in a logical fashion so this would be the case of a unique output where we only need to have this degree of logic for this particular output okay now what happens when you generate these output channels is that they also provide data which is available again on the can bus or on our view screen for control status voltage output current the actual status of the device and again the load profile now you may wonder what the difference is between current and load the current is the instantaneous current going through the device and the load is as I described earlier it’s like a rolling average of the overall load on that output and this is the way we allow for example surge currents and other short term intermittent currents to not just trip the system out so both of those parameters are interesting and useful and again they are or they can both be logged now the other thing we have is that these devices that the high current outputs are capable of 20 amps each but there are some situations where we need more than 20 amps and it’s as simple as wiring all of these outputs together so we can combine them in 20 amp chokes the other outputs there are two output types on these devices we can’t combine the 8 amp types with the 20 amp types that we could combine a number of ATM types together to get for example 24 amps and now this is a good example of where we use our global conditions to control an output for each of these outputs I wouldn’t there would be no point in setting up an individual logic equation if you like because I can set it up as a global condition and then each of these outputs just simply refer to that global condition so it’s a much faster way to set the thing up ok so now we’re just going to quickly look at the other benefits we can get out of these devices as we’ve mentioned we can reduce our wiring cost as as the normal wiring required for switches and so forth is usually wide in say 20 gauge or 18 gauge we can reduce this down to as low as 22 or 24 gauge for switches we can therefore have a much lighter wiring harness but with fewer you know less less wiring less distance of wiring if you like of course the output still require sufficient you know why for the amount of current they’re expected to carry we can also combine more than one PDM in one vehicle in the same way that we have for example a PDM and an engine ECU and a dashboard we may have a PD M the front of the car and another one at the rear of the car now the benefit here is again that we can reduce our wiring massively because all of the data that both of these devices need is carried on the canvas which is a simple pair of wires so we can therefore have to power hubs or more in a car each of those power hubs then fans out to the individual devices at the frontal rear of the car but between those two devices we only need a power feed from the battery and a can signal and they can interchange both the input and output statuses and a switch at the rear of the car can control a device on the PDM at the front of the car so again we’ve reduced our wiring significantly the other benefit is we can actually reuse switches for different functions without having to rewire the whole vehicle we simply redesignate what that switch function is or we we combine it in a different way in our logic setup how we can also use one switch to perform multiple functions the simplest example of this is a switch for example a press button we can time how long it takes this press button to be pushed and we can have if you like you can stab the button for one kind of switch operation or you can hold the button down for another kind of switch operation so even in the case of automatic start you might have a short stamp to prime the fuel pump and then a long stem to start the engine so the same switch is actually being used to do two different things okay now we’re just going to have a look at the actual devices that we’re currently producing you can see there are four of them they oh we have a typo in our screen I apologize for that those connectors are not called you to support connectors they’re called Autosport connectors so the two devices on the left are manufactured using billet and machined aluminium cases black anodized and they use water sport connectors which are of course the very high quality as connectors that we use for a lot of our products these these devices are very verge Lee explosion proof and bullet proof not quite okay so we have to effectively to case sizes one it’s larger than the other the PD m32 has eight 20 amp outputs and 24 eight amp outputs and sixteen has the same number of high current outputs and fewer bloody current

outputs you can also see that the PM 32 has 23 switch inputs and the PBM 16 has 12 so clearly they’re designed for a greater or smaller sort of sophistication depending on the application and we’ve also recently introduced two PDM 30 in PD and 15 they’re the devices on the right hand side they’re in a cast magnesium case with a extremely high temperature coating and they use the lower-cost plastic connector which you may also find on areum 800 ECU’s and this is also an extremely high quality connected with gold-plated pins but it allows you to get into these devices at a lower cost they have a similar number of inputs and outputs and of course the software can be set for any of these devices so one version of the program will allow you to control any of these devices okay I apologize I’ve gone too fast but we’ve been trying to cover a fair bit of material clearly there’s a great deal of extra information available and we will probably do some further webinars on this topic however we do have this will be recorded and then you’ll find it on our our website and in addition we have our mo tech forum where the same stuff you saw earlier in this presentation are available as well as other users of these products so that’s a very good way to get further information and we would suggest if you have any questions you might wish to go to the forum and one of us will be able to answer them in fairly short time okay thank you very much for attending that is the end of this webinar we’re going to keep the the page open just for a few minutes in case there are any questions we have a few other of our operations staff here who are very experienced with these devices so if you have any tricky questions they may be able to help you thank you very much