– Okay, we’re going to get started Hi, everyone My Name’s Katie Kross I’m managing director of the Center for Energy, Development and the Global Environment here at the Fuqua School of Business and I am really excited to moderate our next panel, which I think is going to tie together a lot of the themes that we’ve already been hearing a lot about this morning So when we talk about microgrids, electric vehicles, distributed energy resources, new energy technologies coming on to the grid and talk about the utility of the future, a lot of that discussion is predicated on advancements in digital applications that are going to enable all of that to be possible So we’re going to be talking about energy plus digital technologies I will make a short note that there’s also a lot of digital innovation happening in the oil and gas sector, some of you know, which is enabling a lot of efficiency in that sector Given our panelists here today, we are going to focus primarily on the electric power sector, but know that the digitization of energy covers the entire energy spectrum, not just the power sector So we have a lot to cover it’s a big topic in terms of what digitization means for the electric power sector I think that covers everything from the new net metered system that was just installed on my house to enable my solar panels to sell power back to the grid when I’m not using it to this far off sort of rosy future that we imagine where we are going to have our cars plugged in and our microgrids and our Internet of things and all of our appliances and vehicles are going to be talking to the grid and it’s all going to be perfectly optimized to balance the production and consumption of energy at exactly the right moment in the future There’s a lot to talk about in terms of how do we get to that future, what the barriers are and what are the technologies that are gonna enable that future So I’m going to start I’m just going to ask each one of our panelists here to introduce himself Just tell us a little bit about your organization and your role as it relates to this sort of digital topic and then we’ll jump right into some questions – Should I start? – Yes, please – Sorry about my throat So my name is Debanjan Chakraborty I’m a senior manager with Accenture So Accenture, as many of you would know, it’s a global management consulting company and also a professional services firm It’s a $40 billion company with over 450,000 people across the globe So it has got five different distinct business lines: strategy, consulting, digital technology and operations I actually come from the strategy side of the house and there my focus is technology strategy So I work with corporations to enhance the value of IT and also reposition IT to steer the company to their digital aspirations – Excellent – Hi. my name’s Mike Morley I work for ScottMadden It’s a general management consulting firm based here in Raleigh and an office in Atlanta We do primarily work in the energy sector And my role, since I graduated Fuqua has been mainly just general operations, consulting and energy But more recently have worked on several digital transformation projects because it’s I think one of the, as evidenced by the fact that we’re having this panel, you kinda can’t talk about your operations anymore without understanding the technology underpinning A lot of projects recently in that space – Hi. I’m Greg Myers I work for Sensus Sensus is a local company We’re headquartered right here in Raleigh We have about 650 folks working here in the Raleigh area, 1600 worldwide, but we’re part of a much larger company that you might’ve heard of as well, which is Xylem, which has about 16,000 employees combined We work in the utility industry, and work with communities to provide solutions to help drive towards the digitization of everything that they would need And we work with college campuses and so forth on smart solutions as well as different cities around the country and really around the world – I’m Jim Musilek I’m with the North Carolina Electric Membership Corporation I’m the director of grid modernization My background is really in the power business, but I really work with our distribution coops to help them implement new technologies, new programs to take advantage of those technologies The distribution coops, I don’t know how many folks are familiar with the coops in North Carolina, but we’re not for profit electric utility There’s 26 individual distribution coops

in the state and we deliver power to mostly rural electric consumers If you guys have been in the mountains or down to the beach, you’ve probably been on a coop line and I’m really excited about the conversations that took place earlier today because the coops are doing everything that has been discussed We have two microgrids right now that are in place We have some, we have indoor agriculture I think we have definitely have legal – Illegal (laughs) – There may be illegal that I don’t know about, but we’re also have We’re very aggressive right now on our EV strategy and we’re pursuing a lot of beneficial electrification efforts right now So looking forward to the conversation – Excellent So I guess I just want to start to set the stage for our audience and I’ll start with maybe Mike and Jim, but anyone can jump in on this Can you just talk through a little bit about sort of the current state of the digitization we’ve been hearing for a long time The smart grid is coming So how smart really is the grid at this point and maybe what’s the horizon for the implementation of the smart grid that we’ve been hearing about? – Sure. I can start off I think there have been some of the big macro forces kind of driving some of the changes to the assets and the technology that’s needed to make this smart grid happen, but what you find, at least what we find a lot is that the operations and the processes that support both the implementation of those technologies as well as the use of those technologies and understanding how it fits in and make something that was previously not smart smart is the area that is lagging right now You’d see for instance a utility that they’ve gone forward and they’ve done a great job of implementing AMI but they haven’t yet hired the data scientists to understand what to do with the data, nor have they built the data platform to understand how they capture, transform and just develop insights from that data which then feed back into the way that they manage their processes differently and inform how they do things in a more smart way In terms of how we move forward there, I think a lot of it is on the technology platforms that help enable the implementation of these smart assets as well as changing the operations and a smarter workforce for the utilities to implement them – Yeah. I think that, if you asked So I’m representing a utility and I think most utilities would say that the grid has been pretty smart for a long time Power plants and transmission systems, they had a lot of very sophisticated technology in them for years, for really decades But as we go from the centralized generation down to the distribution really to the edge of the grid, we have evolved I mean it’s constantly evolving Right now we’re in a place where we’re having distribution automation put out on the distribution system so that there is self healing grids We have AMI systems that were pulling lots of data on and when you think about it back in the day, you would get one meter read for the whole month Now we’re getting a meter read every hour, so you’re going from one set of data per month to 744 units of data So having the ability to do that analysis is super important But the grid is I think the grid is smart right now But it is evolving more because the discussions that took place earlier about the Internet of Things, that’s the part that we’re trying to work on now The utility systems are pretty sophisticated They have a lot of fiber and communications deployed, so they’re able to do a lot of stuff on the distribution system But bringing in the digital component, the IoT, the edge of grid, the consumer components, that’s what we’re working on now I think 5-10 years from now, we’re going to see a completely different distribution system And as far as managing it, right now, we just put out an RFP for a DERM system, a distributed energy resource management system And one of the challenges is no one really builds these things So we are definitely plowing new ground, I think in the next five to 10 years, it’ll look a lot different – I’d just like to add, I’ve been involved for a lot of years in this industry, like 27 years I started when I was 10 and (laughs) what I’ve seen is utilities really went

from every couple of months of getting me to read to being able to get it monthly Here in the Raleigh area, there was a drive by system They were able to get a monthly read that essentially just told them, here’s my meter read and here’s a (mumbles) nobody’s tampered with it, or those kinds of things Now they’re putting smart meters in that gives them a whole lot more information They are just now transitioning to that type of system But many of the folks that first adopted the AMI, Advanced Metering Infrastructure, during the era where they got the federal funding, that was the first time that they had ever automated And so they were really happy to just get the cash register working and they were getting hourly data, sometimes 15 minutes data, but they’re really only using it for billing purposes They’re now at the point in there what I would call day two where they now know they have all of this additional data and they’re trying to make more use of it And for companies like ours and my colleagues here, it’s a great challenge, but it is a challenge in that now there is a thirst for analytics to do something with that data and help them utilize it to make the grid smarter and provide more analytics is a good challenge for us to have right now – So let’s talk a little bit more about that data We’ve heard these studies that consumers spend seven minutes a year or thinking about their or their energy bill, right? So how much of that data that we now have access to our consumers actually, wanting to do something with? Just anyone who would like to comment on that – So there’s been a lot of trial and error as far as trying to drive consumer behavior based around giving them more data and more data, and seeing how that might change Where it’s falling down is the fact that the rate structures haven’t really driven folks to change their behavior or habits I mean, we all, if we get an alert, are we going to go adjust our thermostat and so forth Where that’s really going to change is how the utilities can help drive data to be able to help them use their own kind of home automation where they’re automatically set things up to drive those behavioral things and they set it up and they sort of set and forget kind of things And Amazon is diving deep into this We’re working with them on programs that would allow you to be able to tell stop charging my electric car or turn my heat down, this kind of thing Trying to drive it to that type of scenario Utilities for years have tried to get inside the home There was a Zigbee craze for a long time Out of the AMI meters that are deployed today, two thirds of them have a Zigbee chip in them They’re supposed to communicate inside the house, but there’s only a handful of deployments that ever utilized that functionality and that’s because utilities aren’t used to going inside of the home, but what they need to do is be able to enable those folks to do something with that data – Debanjan, you work with a lot of utility sector clients So can you talk – So yeah. A little bit to extend what Greg was talking about If you look at the AMI business case for any manager utility, you’d see more than 30 percent or sometimes more than 40 percent value is actually calculated based on the demand response kind of programs I don’t think we’re there yet If you look across the country, there are many major utilities who are yet to adapt demand response But in terms of the data, I mean, data is the new DNA It is the spine of every major business model which are coming in the mainstream now So from the utility standpoint, you can do a lot You can do asset, you can manage your asset lifecycle, you can use it for modernizing your grid or enabling some of the business functions to do with your grid But then from the customer standpoint, I mean there are new business models coming up which are beyond the electron business models and with the data, the ability to look at your usage on a daily basis, around the clock, you can save power, you can save energy, and also it’ll enable you to participate in many of those new business models – That all sounds very rosy

What are the barriers to this? What are the holdups to the application of both the data analytics and the digital technologies moving the grid forward faster? – This is my point of view I think, we are going to get there, but then in the current world that the technology innovation is moving at a much faster pace than process innovation So you can take the example of blockchain Just for the sake of argument, it is at the height of its expectation People are talking about what blockchain cannot It is going to fall into the trough because there is not much of adoption People talk about, you can use blockchain for smart contract for EV stations so you can do transactive grid pricing transactions, but then those business models are yet to come up to speed They are yet to come to the mainstream So there is a lack, same with data I think, as AI and machine learning and all utilities understand the value that they capture, from these new technologies, as they are going to come to the mainstream, there’s an immense potential to the average data But then again you need data because you want to enable a certain process a certain business model And I think that the utilities are still navigating through that process So to answer your question, the barriers, I think it is mostly the inertia abreast that the regulatory aspects of things So the future will emerge and we’ll see what happens – Yeah – And just to add one piece to that around the understanding what the business capability model is for the entity that’s using the data I think a lot of times what we see are these silos between the operators and the technologists at the firm that we’re working with And oftentimes their decisions are made without talking to each other on, here are our inputs, our use cases on what we need this technology to do and vice versa, here’s how you need to change your processes to incorporate this technology We’ve worked with several utilities lately and particularly with a lot of RTOs that have these A good example is the synchro phasers that have been installed, equipment that can help predict outage and allow the operator to take evasive action to make sure that doesn’t happen The data is collected, transmitted, sent, stored and not processed at all, and not used by a lot So that is an example where, if you were to break down what is the business capability that we’re trying to enable? It’s outage prediction, and then, how do we do outage prediction and then linking the technologies there I think you start to create this network effect, but without it, it’s tough to get adoption and it’s tough to actually get it implemented – If I can just add one thing We’re talking about the data and the interface with the consumer I think the data is really sort of the raw material to develop the business case or to develop the value And in the one anecdotal story I’ll tell you is we did a grid enabled water heater pilot, from 2017 through 2018 and we were looking at data from water heaters, every five seconds when we were putting them in control And one of the things we discovered was we could tell when these tanks were leaking and we could tell when the electrodes on the electric resistance water heater needed to be replaced There’s a business case there of something to provide value to the consumer and there’s just so much data available to us now We really do need to take that as a raw material and try to understand how we can develop it into different types of services or products for end use consumers – Are there any transformational enablers either in policy or in business model innovation that you think that would advance the adoption of digital technologies in the power space faster? – Before I answer that question directly, let me just talk about what is really changing this industry? So there are three major strategic themes, if you will, the decarbonization, decentralization and democratization, three Ds These three are the strategic forces that is transforming or twisting the industry In terms of technology,

people can talk about different things, and they’re all in their own evolutionary phase or cycle, but then there are three types of technologies which are going to evolve One is the assistive intelligence It could be AI, it could be the machine learning, deep learning and so on, and also the intelligent things like robot, like the drone, utilities are saving a lot of money using drone now Second, the experience technologies, technologies that you can use to make the experience more immersive, extended reality, and IoT that enables digital (mumbles) and also the connective mesh Right now, we have got blockchain, it might get to its own adoption point, and all that and beneath that, you have this tremendous computing horsepower and data that’s going to enable all of these different things Now to the point of policy, right? You do have the technology in place You do have the foundational elements in place There are, I briefly mentioned that policy is also a barrier, although the clear mandate of maybe the regulators now, and Jim can probably talk more about this, is that you have to go this certain route, but then yet your customer facing metrics do not align with the way you authorize your utility revenue return, the authorized rate of return So recently, for example, there is a mandate that came in Hawaii They call that performance based rate making So they are linking that utility revenue with some of the metrics, like your interconnection to the customer sited technologies like residential battery or a solar, rooftop solar and so on So I think these policies need to be propagated farther, across the nation to incent the utility companies to drive these technologies and these business models much more You have the foundation, you have the computing, you have got everything It is just the adoption and that has to be in a way supported by all those different policies – Anyone else? – Yeah. Just one other thing to add I think a lot of the clients that we see, the issues that we see are, they’re trying to adopt a point solution and tack it on to a dinosaur IT system that really needs to be revitalized and built in a way that is modular, extensible, scalable, and so until you take the plunge and build that, it’s difficult to just keep stitching on a new application that’s designed to run in a continuous delivery and then with dev ops Until you build the platform that allows you to do that, you end up continuing to lag behind the adoption of these technology changes But it’s not easy to just go do that There’s a lot of steps involved in that process That’s one of the other things that we see is you see an Amazon and the Googles and the companies that innovate the most aggressively and they have that platform, they have that capability Whereas a lot of the utilities, the wholesale market operators, they’re just still trying to figure out what that means – You were talking about barriers forgetting digital technology, so speaking for rural cooperative perspective, the thing that is lacking in the rural parts of North Carolina and in the country in general is broadband and the rural parts of the state and we’re talking about all this digital technology and if the folks don’t have access to it, it’s going to make it a challenge to get those types of devices out there So I think that’s just one thing that is definitely a barrier Like I said, in five to 10 years we may see a lot of changes in that area – So I was just on the break reading an article The headline was that about an AI application that promises to boost a power plant profitability by 20 percent, which obviously would be huge for the industry Can you all just talk about which of the It made all the headlines of the promises of the technology transforming the energy sector Which ones are actually likely to have the most meaningful impact on profitability and efficiency in the sector? – Go ahead – Look, a short answer I think it is definitely data analytics, but then you can argue that data analytics has been a pretty old notion The thing is that for many companies even now,

they have got descriptive analytics They produce reports out of data That’s going to go up to predictive and more prescriptive analytics, and eventually you can use the same data for your machine learning, deep learning and artificial intelligence I think this whole stream: analytics through AI, through machine learning, they have got tremendous value proposition for utilities, especially machine learning, I would say You can also use machine learning for self healing, for smart reading, all that, which is slightly beyond even data – I was going to say, to me from enabling all of these distributed energy resource applications It’s battery storage and getting to the level of cost effectiveness that it needs to be like you mentioned that you have solar In North Carolina the solar incentives have gone away I know folks that have, and I’ve talked to utilities, that have folks that call them and say, “Hey, I thought I was going to save all this money on my utility bill, but I’m paying $150 a month to the solar company for the equipment I’m still paying you $150 a month for my utility bill I thought that was going away.” The problem is that there’s no ability to store that energy and they’re still the utility shop to make sure that every consumer is still getting the quality of service that they need And to enable some of those technologies, especially on a more local community level the battery storage has to get a stage that is cost effective – Excellent Cost efficient batteries, we’re all hoping for it Are there other technologies that are on the horizon that maybe are not commercializable yet, but something maybe far off that you’ve got your eye on? – So I think the quantum computing could be one of those for sure I mean it’s still a very nascent stage, IBM, also Google actually they are working on it, but then it is going to be a major disruptor going forward I probably shouldn’t use the word disruptor It is very loose But it’s going to enable your data-related models in a much more powerful way And also it’s going to probably disrupt a few technologies like blockchain Blockchain for example, it’s a great technology, but then it does have an Achilles heel that it is based on very standard cryptographic functions and then when you’ll have quantum computing, that’s going to disrupt that, because you can break those cryptographic algorithms very easily with quantum computing So then probably you’re gonna have some other type of blockchain So yeah, quantum computing could be one of those definitely – Anyone else have thoughts? – And just to piggyback on that, we’re working with a consortium of wholesale market operators and they’re trying to work with General Electric, who’s the primary market designer in terms of the software that runs it and figure out how to break down the problems in different ways For instance, I think the majority of the analytics and the compute power is needed to solve the day ahead market That’s where the majority of prices are set That’s where you have most constraints There are very strict timelines and windows by which these wholesale market operators need to solve the market and there are a lot more inputs than there used to be, and there are a lot more constraints than there used to be When you think about new FERC storage orders with more participation allowed, continued evolution towards lower levels of participation requirements You see what’s going on in New York with Rev, with moving that even potentially to the distribution level So you start looking at what needs to go into this pipeline to get computed and it becomes pretty evident that you need to solve the problem in a different way So whether you look at parallel optimization or distributed optimization, you need to change the algorithms and you need to change the hardware on which it runs I think from the wholesale market perspective, that’s a big challenge that we’re dealing with right now – Can I give a nontechnical answer? – Sure – You think about game changers I think consumer expectations, that’s the one thing that’s in the mix in all this is in our company, we’re really in the business of providing service to end use consumers As consumers’ tastes change and needs change, we’re going to really need to be able to adapt to those changes and there’ll be a technological solution,

but we’re going to need to be really the someone said earlier fail fast and pivot We’re definitely going to need to The utilities are going to have to change how they think about things because it’s gonna be a different world That was just one thought I had when we were talking about this – Greg, you have a favorite technology future? – Yeah, I would say it’s something that’s starting to become a more thought about in my industry as far as serving utilities with communications and centers and metrology kind of things is the ability to be able to support the changing grid Grid was developed to deliver bulk generation power one way, and now the grid has all of these other inputs coming into it from distributed energy resources, microgrids, solar, all these things that now the utility has to manage in more of a circular fashion and how they’re going to keep the levels that they’re delivering to the consumer at the levels, at the same quality they’ve always had You talk about Hawaii and all the solar that Hawaii has, during the peak of the day, their voltage levels will be around 125 When the sun goes down, their voltage levels drop to 114 If a cloud comes over, their voltage levels drop So it’s being able to be able to manage all of that integrated and still be able to provide the same level of service to their customers There’s also issues with safety and outages when those occur and you got energy coming back onto the grid and you’ve got line workers out there trying to work on it So there are all these things that utilities are thinking about to be able to service that So they’re looking at technologies, we’re developing technologies that allow utilities to be able to make more of those decisions on the grid edge and be able to act on those things at the grid edge versus bringing all the data back for centralized decision making process and then sending controls back down Now there are still things that you do that with, but to be able to have that capability on the edge of the grid, where everything’s happening is going to be very important – Great So we’ve got a couple of questions from our audience here This one’s interesting, and I’m not sure who will have a perspective on it, but do you see digital technology is facilitating opportunities for deregulated energy markets in the US? – Yes (laughs) – Interesting question – I was going to say I do in that, because the utility model is changing, they’re becoming more, and some of the You know, there’s been initiatives in many states to drive towards utilities becoming distribution service providers and that means that they’re in charge of how power gets delivered to every home, but they’re not in charge necessarily of where that energy comes from And so driving toward that kind of model enables more players to be able to sell energy into that market as it becomes cost effective for private providers to be able to develop and build and invest in alternative resources But it drives the utility model differently, because forever, they’ve been used to being able to charge for every kilowatt and everything they deliver That’s how they made money, capital assets and those kinds of things And now the model’s changing where now they’re not getting the kilowatt hour charge, so how do you continue to fund that piece of it? And there are many states trying to figure that out I’ve been working a lot in Ohio with their Power Forward Initiative and a lot of what they’re trying to do is just that is how do we enable more of that kind of ability for third parties to be able to participate in the power market – Anyone else may have anything to that? – Yeah, I think this concept of extensibility, from a platform that the utility has now, we’re working with some clients that have an interesting situation where they’re looking at developing a power pool One of the companies is a public company, it’s a coop, and the other is an investor owned utility And just seeing the comparison between the two in terms of their technological development and where they’re at in the level of sophistication in the processes, you can kind of see the snowballing effect that you’d have with increasing digitization

in those that can keep up versus those that can’t So yeah, my perspective would be that it favors those that have already made the move and are a little bit more free to operate – Interesting – So if I can take a very quick tangent to that actually to extend that conversation a little bit Deregulation or not? To offer of value net off the utilities industry is going to change completely in the next five or 10 years So if you think about the value net and all the value which are created by the participants of that value net and think of that as a universe, the customers are going to create wormholes through that universe all over the place is because your customers are not going to be your buyers anymore They’re also your suppliers They are also substituting your energy supply by participating in energy efficiency and demand response Going back to your question there are going to be immense opportunities to co-create value with the customers And there are going to be significant value that’ll come from many of these new you know beyond the electron with business models And they are going to be supported by the digital technologies that you’re talking about, irrespective of the regulatory structure – Great, so we have a couple of questions about the data ownership So as you might expect, there’s the concern of how do we protect that data and privacy and are there security risks, but also then, who owns that data? Is it going to be the utilities? Is it going to be Amazon, Google? Is it going to be someone else in the supply chain? Anyone have a perspective? – I can speak for the utilities The utilities own the data it’s the consumer’s data and the utilities, they’re sort of the stewards of that data Now when we’re working with other entities, it’s a big challenge because there’s other companies, very common home products that you would hear I don’t want to name any names, but they’re really hard to deal with when it comes to data And in NCEMC we’re the GNT for the state And we have the distribution coops We do not see it as data that we own It is the consumer’s data and the utilities are the stewards of it and any data we get is always anonymized But I think it’s an interesting question because there is so much data now and there is valuable studies that can be done on it You’d like to be able to anonymize the data and do some work on it so that you can develop the value proposition out of it – Go ahead – I was going to mention the Green Button initiative I think this is what it’s called, that’s taking place and evolving over the last several years to figure out how we take this data and identify ways to start unlocking it So the ability to anonymize it and collect it and standardize the nomenclature and the data management around it, how that works I think is a step towards unlocking some of the value that’s mixed in that chain In terms of the ownership, I think there’s a big risk for utilities to be disintermediated from customers from these third parties who could potentially create a wedge in between them and start collecting that data and doing something with it – Yeah, I would completely agree We enable that data collection and everything that we interface with is through the utility asking us to develop an interface to that separate system Now I talked about Zigbee earlier where the data is going directly from the meter to something inside the home That still is utility and consumer control That’s not something that we’re doing directly to a third party That’s still in the hands of the utility and the consumer’s acceptance of that data going into those devices – Great, so we just got a couple of minutes left, but given that we do have a lot of students in the audience, I would love to hear from you, if you have any, you know if we’ve piqued the interest of some students today, either resources that you recommend for them to learn more or stay abreast of these developments or the types of companies if they really want to be a player in this industry where you recommend they take a look Any advice for our students? – I would say go to NCEMC’s website (laughs) We have really good programs, internships, summer students We’re doing a lot of really innovative projects right now

It’s actually a cool company to work for You think of a utility I started in the utilities 25 years ago and it was kind of a boring place, and it’s not that anymore I mean there’s a lot of really cool projects that are going on I mean the discussions that have happened already today You think about all the renewables, the energy storage This discussion of digitization – Yeah – You know back in the day, folks if they were going to get an electrical engineering degree or some type of electrical degree, they would want to go into software, because that was way sexier than the utility business, but the utility business has become a much different place And I would say go to NCEMC’s website Look at some of our innovative projects We’d love to attract young talent And also, there’s a lot of resources online for the utility business, for energy in general – Yeah. Excellent – And I would say there’s a booming business of trade shows out there and conferences that you can go to attend – Do you have a favorite conference? – Pardon? – You have a favorite conference? – I do – Besides this one of course – Yeah. Besides this one So DistribuTECH is the big conference in the energy industry, and it occurs every year unfortunately around the Superbowl timeframe, but it’s a place that you get to see all of the new technologies that are rolling out to be able to talk to the folks and what they think is happening and again, 20 some years ago you’d go to this conference and it was not as nice as it is now when you go It’s really a booming industry So it’s a great time to be in the energy industry – I think generally I would just say for the non technical background folks, don’t be intimidated by technology projects and learning the technology Start with this understanding of the capabilities and the processes that make up how this works, and then just learn how modern system architecture works It’s not that difficult to just pick up some of these very simple books that start with understanding DevOps And the people that have the technology background that typically dive into the technology, I would say the exact opposite Learn how to contextualize your problem into a capability model or a process orientation in order to kind of pull yourself out and understand how the technology will be used – Yeah, just following Jim, I would say, go to accenture.com We do actually – We all have internships, right? – We do have Yeah, that’s great So we do have deep expertise, across the value chain if you will, from strategy to operations, so you’ll get some really good articles to read about in accenture.com But a few other places that you can go to, definitely conferences like DistribuTECH, but also some websites like EPRI and also, Edison Electric Institute, EEI Those are some very good resources to study up and get prepped for before you join the workforce – Excellent We’ll leave it there, and hopefully talk more internships later (laughs) And please join me in thanking our panelists for today (applause)