hey guys I am interviewing one of my friends and a woman who I admire very much Isabelle Fox ndu she has a website called stop fighting food and she basically helps women who have issues with emotional eating binge eating body image issues she helps all these different women conquer those things I find that incredibly inspirational I know a lot of people have these issues so having a person like Isabel to go to to get information from and to to tackle to tackle these things within themselves I think it’s just amazing so that’s why I’m talking to her today I have so many questions I’m so curious about how you got started what got you interested in this and so yeah so tell me like where did this come from you know working with women with emotional eating well I think there are so there are you know quite a few coaches in the world and wellness professionals in the world talking about emotional leading I think emotional eating is kind of a little bit of a buzzword in certain circles right now even Weight Watchers is using the term emotional eating and talking about and alluding to helping women overcome sort of eating your feelings in quotes which is yeah definitely something that the vast majority of women and really anyone who’s ever been on a diet or any kind of restrictive regimen around food likely has dealt with in some capacity it’s really just a matter of degree right some people eat their feelings a lot more some people eat their feelings less some people alternatively also get into binge eating patterns which I actually put into a category all on its own binge eating is in my opinion a reaction to deprivation it is a reaction to feeling like you’re in a cage with food feeling like oh my gosh the food’s gonna be gone tomorrow gotta get it in right now yeah yeah which is another sort of it’s a that’s I would say like that’s a category of emotional eating unto itself that a lot of dieters find themselves in right so yeah so emotional eating is a really broad topic but ultimately how I got into it was because of my own struggles with both emotional eating binge eating diet binge cycling and just generally feeling crazy around food which is really how I describe the work that I do I help women reclaim their sanity around food and feel like empowered around food again right oh that’s awesome Thanks so so like what what is your your experience with all this so I often start the story by telling people out there they off sometimes believe me and sometimes don’t hmm I was putting my first dive when I was three what yes yep yep because I was I guess I was you know I was high on the baby BMI scale I was I guess for whatever reason you know a chubby baby according to my pediatrician and so you know my pediatrician told my mother you got a watch it got a watch her weight and that was the beginning of my dieting out of an incredible obviously incredibly young age yeah I never never anything like that yeah so I don’t even have memories of eating quote-unquote normally like I always was restricting my food in some capacity from as young and age as I can remember right and because of that relationship with food you know food was primarily it was a temptation it was something to be avoided it was something I couldn’t have and therefore I I kind of became a more and more obsessed with it the more and more I dieted you know and the more and more I tried to control my food ultimately the more I felt like food was controlling me it was like I couldn’t even trust myself around the breadbasket like I would just like keep thinking about whether or not I’d had too many pieces of bread could I have one more like it became a constant struggle within myself just managing food all the time and feeling like it was I always had to be I always had to try to control myself around food and sort of deny my urges which just became more obsessive and more compulsive as time went on so yeah so that kind of you know kind of brings up this whole other area of emotional eating that I think a lot of people forget which is you know emotional eating isn’t just eating your feelings that doesn’t just happen for no reason when we are dieting when we’re trying to control our bodies through food basically start feeling like afraid of food and oh my gosh that’s gonna make me fat I can’t meet that we become more obsessed with food and more likely to turn to food when under emotional duress and that’s sort of like the eating your feelings bar exactly basically the more we the more we restrain ourselves around food the more we diet the more likely we are to engage in emotional eating behaviors you don’t really see that many women or men identify with the term emotional leader unless they have a restrictive history with okay yeah interesting yeah it doesn’t just come

out of nowhere it’s the first it’s the dieting and the restricting that sort of triggers the emotional eating yeah generally speaking I mean it’s kind of a weird area because I think that most normal leaders do eat their feelings occasionally yeah and non dieters I think that that’s a universal experience it’s just that we know that dieting increases your likelihood to turn to food and emotional Deraa when under emotional duress rather than an quote-unquote normal leader who probably has developed a variety of other coping mechanisms and ways to deal with their feelings over time so a normal leader in quotes and again I used this term normal leader it’s a little a little controversial but I use it mainly because so many women who struggle with binge eating and dive in cycling and you know they feeling crazy around food I really identify with that term so when I say the term normal eating just to be clear I’m saying you know a woman or a man who feels like they can make choices with food effortlessly who they feel you know feel that food isn’t controlling them and feel like they can go on about their day eat what they want at lunch breakfast and dinner and not really think about it in between you know that’s sort of the normal eating experience whereas the women that I work with and certainly this was my personal experience or like obsessing about food all day long so when you’re obsessing about food at all because I think about food a lot but I I think about like like the new recipes I’m going to and stuff yeah princess yeah what is it what is the mindset the opposite of that good distinction it’s really important so yeah so a normal leader who just you know first instance is a chef yeah or likes to or the food critic of some kind or just you know enjoys learning about food for whatever reason usually those people have positive associations with food right like food is a good thing yeah it nor should me it’s delicious it might yeah exactly as I’m sure many of you watching this and listening to this identify with that and then there are what I would call women who feel crazy around food or you know emotional leaders diet binge cyclers who their obsession around food is is tormenting them it is much more painful for them it is a source of anxiety really they feel afraid around food like oh my gosh somebody please hide the Nutella jar otherwise I don’t know what’s gonna happen I’m going they’re like yeah exactly I’m just gonna eat it all like I can’t be trusted with the new deaf it’s I think that probably the main term that I use to identify a quote-unquote emotional eater or women who identify with that term are is women who feel or men again I work with women so I’m gonna go ahead and use the word women but um women who feel out of control around food like women who feel like they are not able to make empowered choices around food like food is somehow controlling their lives either thinking about it trying to manage all the time but in a lot of instances eating it binge eating emotional eating compulsive behaviors around food I mean 95% of people who are engaging in sort of you know compulsive or obsessive restrictive behaviors around food or you know severely you know dieting basically women who are trying to control their weight all the time yeah are will end up engaging in compulsive overeating or emotional eating binge eating etc that’s for 95% of people restrictors will fall into sort of the flip side of restriction right within you know three to five years Wow okay so how did you it seems like you know weird it’s a pretty serious issue yeah it’s yeah totally pull yourself out of that yeah so I mean again the degrees of severity depend on the person yeah how long have you been doing this how long has this been going on like how deep in the hole are you and for me I can say that I was I was pretty deep in the hole mom you know I was diagnosed as clinically disordered eater I wasn’t diagnosed as a binge eater I was in rehab at one point I was seeing every therapist in the world I was you know very luckily had a lot of resources to be able to do these things most women who struggle with binge eating never get to this never get to a point where they’re really in clinical care but I was also probably because there was some other behaviors that were going on you know I was so desperate to basically try to control my food which really when I’m being honest was I was so desperate to try to control my weight so desperate to try to lose weight that I was using stimulant medication I was using drugs to control my weight I was doing I’m eating yeah to keep me from eating exactly so that was actually how I ended up in rehab was that I was like got really hooked on stimulant medications

basically and that was ultimately how I got into clinical care so obviously this can be this is a spectrum as far as severity it can be really severe which was my experience but also even coming out of rehab and even after I stopped using drugs and even after things were sort of okay I think I fell to the sort of middle ground place which is I think we’re with most women relate to where I wasn’t doing anything super self harming but I was just mentally felt horrible that my body all the time I was felt still pretty out of control around food like I couldn’t be trusted around the cupcakes like please get them out of the house otherwise I might just like eat the entire pan and again feel horrible about myself the body image concerns were probably the most painful for me mm-hmm just feeling like I didn’t want to leave the house because I hated my body so much I’m so angry with myself all the time and confused and just felt like there was something so fundamentally wrong with me that I could not control myself around food and it didn’t occur to me really at the time that it was my desire to gain control of what is really a biological instinct right exactly Yeah right like that’s another thing you know quote-unquote normal eaters do not plan out every bite they’re going to eat in advance when they’re hungry and not when they’re full and they experience biological you know imperatives around food yeah I basically didn’t even know what hunger was when I was really deep in it I mean I understood when I was starving and I understood when I was so full that I could barely breathe there’s no there was no one between ya which is you know a big part of the sort of first step of overcoming this stuff is getting back in touch with your body and starting to eat like an animal like a mammal human mammals thanked me and I think most yeah most like diet benders they’ve been spending their whole life trying to control their food based on you know what they should eat like what does this diet tell me to eat you know how many calories should I consider that wrestling can so confusing there’s so many different mixed messages around that yeah so do you think do you think in the you before you said that you weren’t comfortable even after the rehab and you were you weren’t physically harming your body anymore but you also didn’t you didn’t like your body so is that from does that come from being on so many diets or was that like is that a product of that I actually think it’s the reverse I think most of this problem stems with a body image issue and it stems from I can’t stand the way I look I need to lose weight my body’s not good enough which is a message that pretty much all women and increasingly more and more men are you getting and then what ends up happening is we take action around it which everyone was telling us to take which often is to engage in these really restrictive on healthful diets right legs you know count your points count your calories like restrict your portions like all of this right which are not usually based on what a human body what an individual human body actually needs right like we’re all different like you might need more or less calories than I need these one-size-fits-all diet are basically they’re like a disaster waiting to happen I’m so popular also yeah it’s like just like you know there’s fire cooked after diet cook after diet book and they’re so all different and yeah well you know and this is not to get to like political with it by any means but you know there’s an enormous industry behind this and just a huge amount of money being made on quick fixes because there’s exactly the quick fix you know I think if there’s anything that women and want around food it’s that they want a quick fix to what they consider to be their body that isn’t good enough right which again this concept of good enough is is a troubling concept to begin with right I mean like when you when is your body doesn’t matter um it’s like seems to be a never-ending process but yeah yeah yeah so regardless you know I think that you know I know that for me definitely the hardest part was just like feeling like I didn’t want to go outside because I you know was ashamed of my body and I really obviously I thought that the solution to that was just ever increasingly restrictive diets and and greater and greater attempts at trying to control my food which in a lot of ways you know on this topic of biological imperative it’s kind of like trying to control your breath you trying to control your like try and control everything you need it’s kind of like trying to control how you breathe like

yeah I can control my breath temporarily right but at some point it’s natural exactly exactly so at some point I will not be able to continue to control my breathing think about it oh yeah it’s an automatic process that is totally biologically instinctive so what happens when I try to control my breath man I try to control my breath at some kind of point I’m gonna lose it yeah and I’m probably gonna start gasping for air yeah right like if I go underwater and I hold my breath when I come up I’m gonna write just try and get as much air in my lungs as I possibly can as a reaction that’s basically what binge eating is right it’s it’s gasping for air when you have been restricting your food and so you know again this is sort of slightly different than the way we think of classic emotional eating sure even though emotional eating is also related to dieting it’s something we see happening a lot more frequently in dieters because dieters and women really women who have struggled with their body image tend to think about food a lot yeah right like there’s actually you know it might eat this can I eat that I already ate that earlier right if you’re obsessed with food you’re gonna eat emotionally more fast food and thinking about it all the time the second you like want a nice treat or want to comfort yourself you’re gonna probably turn to the cupcake over say a normal eater who might turn to a cupcake but they might also like put on a podcast that they like or listen to some music that calms them down or do you know call a friend do any other number of things they have a more diverse range of coping mechanism okay whereas the dieter tends to be more reliant on emotional eating as their primary coping mechanism again my emotional eating is sort of in my opinion that sort of like a secondary problem I think the binge eating is much more painful and that’s that sort of like gasping for air after you’ve been restricting your food that like you know I think actually a it was another woman who I know who’s in this industry Josie’s Bernardi who coined this term gasping for food yeah yeah and that really resonated with me and is something that like certainly I relate to and I think a lot of dieters relate to in general I feel like this is so so so common but the way you are the way you’re talking about it makes so much sense to me you know it’s because I do know a lot of people who would consider themselves emotional eaters and who do binge eat and who have you know some sort of disordered eating or distorted disordered way of eating or thinking about food exactly disordered thinking is really where it all kind of starts mm-hmm exactly and then you know taking that back to the body image issues with you know I want to look a certain way whether it be like I mean I know most women it seems like we are so no it seems like it is we’re so influenced by what the media says that we should look like totally have such a hard time with just saying okay that’s how that person looks I’m gonna look we have a really hard time accepting our own bodies totally individuality and now different we all are and totally well you know it’s it’s I think it’s problematic problematic especially for young people but really for women of all ages to only see one type of person represented in the media yeah right we talk about it as the privileged body type yeah the privileged body type is like thin tall white like there are certain attributes that we see being rewarded and basically given an enormous amount of social privilege and thinness is one of those things that we value in our society and obviously when we give social privileges to thinness we’re going to create a culture of people who are obsessed with becoming thinner unfortunately the way that people try to become thinner is often through these sort of like dangerous and obsessive tactics which backfire into all of these you know binge eating behaviors but the binge eating again secondary did the just general feeling crazy around food and just the psychological warfare that often happens when we’re fighting our bodies more you know we’re fighting who we are genetically and otherwise so how do you get yourself out of that whole cycle in that that fighting hiding food yeah well so it’s humming how do you stop fighting food yeah so I mean as sort of we’re alluding to right now I think it’s pretty impossible to stop fight stop really fighting food without doing body image work and without a certain level of body acceptance like being done which most women saying oh my gosh there’s no way I could accept this body right now or learn to love it and they have all these reasons why they shouldn’t right it’s not good enough right now if I loved my body then I wouldn’t be motivated to lose weight that’s one I hear a lot really oh all the time I hear women say that they they literally don’t want to love their bodies because they somehow think that

their shame or their or their hatred of their bodies is helping them get thinner yeah which is not actually true because 99% of the time it’s just helping them emotionally eat morning so that’s a that’s a that’s one that I love to disprove like I want to be like really like if shame and self-hate we’re motivating you into making healthier choices with food like I’m you do a deck right now yeah yeah so yeah so there’s like all sort you know women have all sorts of hang-ups about essentially not even wanting to love their bodies but essentially when you get to the point where you realize okay hating my body and like feeling ashamed of her and not wanting to go outside you know not wanting to get in the pool in my bathing suit because I don’t like the way I look those kinds of attitudes toward my body are not helping me make healthy choices they’re actually propelling me into this diet binge cycle which for all intents and purposes like we have reason to believe could actually be making helping you gain weight right um it’s funny there’s a lot of talk in our industry about sort of weight set point theory and this idea that every individuals body actually has a genetic Constitution like a weight that their body naturally wants to be that they’re fighting to be at any time now obviously that weight can change depending on our behaviors but ultimately everyone has a genetic set point weight that when they’re just eating healthfully normally their body wants to be right and the only way that we actually the only evidence that we have to change a person’s weight at that point because lots of people are always asking okay well maybe I could alter my weight at that point how do I change right like how do I change my biology so that my natural weight is there and really we don’t actually know a way to make a person’s body weight natural as that point weight thinner than it is but we do know a way to make it to move a person’s natural setpoint weight up and then that is through starvation mmm right and screwing around with someone’s metabolism right right like if it’s your body it has its own mine and it’s like I’m starving I need to conserve that yeah totally totally so in a lot of instances the 95 percent of the sort of diet restrictive behaviors that women think are helping them lose weight even if they temporarily lose weight they’re probably gaining weight in the long run from doing them because they’re doing really really high probability that they are screwing around with their metabolism by doing it yeah yeah yeah and more reason to see it figure out how you can love the body that you have yeah you’d be okay with it yeah totally totally Wow yeah and so for you when you first you know you like you said you didn’t want to leave the house so what was what was the first step for you and sort of in accepting the body that you have totally so first things first you have to actually want to like your body and I think this is again I’ve already said this once but I’m gonna repeat it because it’s so important most women don’t do the work necessary to change how they feel about their bodies because they think that hating their bodies is somehow within their best interest right when that is absolutely not true there is no correlation between body love and weight gain so and what but what I will say is when you get to a point where you start to see this cycle in action this is obviously a cycle that I talk a lot about and stop fighting food and you know talking all about this this whole trajectory and journey that so many women go on but one of the I would say well now I’ve completely just like lost my train of thought for a minute getting yourself to love yourself right so you can exactly after you’ve made the decision basically that you really want to work on body image and realize that body image is something that’s gonna be necessary in your journey to escape this crazy cycle that so many of us are on it becomes much easier but I’ll just give you like a list of some things that are you know I ideas of what to do to change your relationship with your body once you’ve reached that point okay so things like I would say actually changing the visual imagery that you expose yourself to on a regular basis I heard her give this tip so in another show and I love that’s so much it’s super huge and has been that big deal so basically we only know of one scientifically proven way to change a woman’s body image I happen to think that there are lots of others and I talk about them all the time but probably the most effective and the most important and again the only scientifically proven way to change how a woman feels about her own body is by exposing her to visual images of body diversity right so if you basically if you like what we were saying before if you’re only looking at a specific kind of body type

as you know do you praised the privileged body that’s and you don’t look like that you’re gonna feel like horrible not yourself if you take it upon yourself to actually look at images of women of varying sizes and varying body types and just various forms of human diversity and beauty you’re gonna start to see beauty in those shapes and sizes and forms of human diversity more easily right basically and you’ll start to identify yourself with images right so one of the things that I often tell my clients is I want you to go on Instagram and find accounts of women who inspire you and who you look up to and who you think are beautiful and who you think have you know cool clothes whatever aspirational images that work for you and I want those women to be your size or bigger and so for me that’s often like various plus-size models I mean there’s plus-size models are a really interesting thing to look at right now because they are they’re sort of taking the body image world by storm like they are kind of blowing up the fashion world right now I think plus-size fashion in general something really interesting to watch most people that they hear the word plus-size and they’re like oh you know like they completely have this image of like frumpy ah yeah only wearing Talbots yeah exactly but now you know we have all of these incredible designers you know fashion week has now started having plus I chose because variety is really cool fashion bloggers have come out right and they’re like awesome you know young women will actually women of all ages but they are women who are essentially being like yep this is my size I don’t have the traditional body type PS only 5% of women do if that and I’m just another one of these women who’s not what you generally see in magazines and I’m gonna show you look like I’m gonna show myself looking at things fabulous I’m wearing you know they’re like the clothes that I want to wear that make me feel good about myself yeah and these women these bloggers have just blown up they’re all over Instagram the plus-size modeling world has become just super interesting I mean they’re they’re modeling for all sorts of high-end fashion brands like I mentioned plus I chose in Fashion Week are tearing off and they’re just they’re really incredible to watch I mean my into my personal Instagram is just like literally like one hot plus-size model yeah yeah yeah and I look at them and most of them are bigger you know I’m not like plus-size myself but just watching them is just it’s it changes your idea of beauty it changes your idea of what sexy means it changes your idea of what stylish means I mean it’s I would say absolutely like watching this women has has changed my personal life and I see it over and over and over again change how my clients view their bodies just from from exposing themselves to these images is interesting I love that yeah that and that’s that’s something that everyone can do it’s really easy we all are on Instagram and Media all the time I have a one little slide question about that then now I love all you know all the new plus-size models out there and the you know that I’m able to see more diversity in body types that’s for me it’s very empowering and very inspiring and vigor eating and all these things however I have thought about now now this is totally this is totally different topic in a way but still kind of related the reason that I think plus-size models are so popular right now is because so much like our country is just becoming more and more plus-size and they’re not necessarily often it’s not necessarily a set body weight you know like for instance most of my family is overweight or obese except really getting small a handful of us I feel like mom I’m at my I feel like I’m at my set weight I have a very healthy relationship with food I love it I don’t not obsessed with it like in a negative way but on the other hand my family who is obese they aren’t either you know I don’t I don’t think they have any emotional eating or binge eating problems they just eat whatever everybody around them is also overweight or obese and so it’s normal to eat you know bad food and the problem with that isn’t net in my brain not so much that they’re overweight more so the health problems that come along with it right so here’s the thing and this is a little bit controversial because I think that there is so much lobbying around sort of blaming America’s health crisis on fatness or on obesity when in reality most of these health problems we think about things like heart health or diabetes or various other obesity-related illnesses which are

certainly related ie correlated to weight right because you’re drinking corn syrup all day long you’re gonna get fat and be got diabetes you know let you know soon a sinner right exactly and I often use the word fat I hope that no one takes out the wrong way I use the word fat as a way to neutralize the word so that we can have like a honest no conversation about fat instead of paying I can’t say the word fat because it’s the worst thing in the world right um so I use the word fat on purpose just as it is okay so yeah so if you are you know basically eating poorly right like that’s essentially what’s happened with the quote of obesity epidemic is that we’ve had industrialized food systems come into play you know corn corn basically like corn soy wheat like these things like become incredibly cheap become people’s primary source of food calories go up essentially things like corn syrup or being you know stuff’s pretty much subsidized by the government right and so the entire this is why it’s also obviously very class related situation yeah but ultimately you know when we think about there’s again mainly because of the diet industry there’s a huge push to say these illnesses are being caused by obesity when in reality these illnesses are being caused by poor health yeah exactly they’re being caused by the food it’s just so happens that fatness or obesity right is another outcome of that bad food right does that make sense right so essentially it’s it’s not obesity causing diabetes so much as corn syrup causes diabetes and obesity right exactly and so what ends up happening to those people who are naturally bigger or smaller or whatever right so like I mean there’s so many Oh most of the plus-size models I know are like of their you know they’re very healthful size-12 they work out all the time like there’s everything vegetables and that is just they’re naturally women a lot of people in that situation basically are for lack of better word yet they get screwed right like they become sort of they’ve become judged and are basically discriminated against because we as a country have decided that fatness is the problem instead of food being the problem and so this does that make sense yes yeah it’s good it’s good stuff this is some good stuff it yeah but yeah so basically it’s like we have a system we have a flawed government system we have a flawed political system we have a system wherein we want to sell people bad foods at cheap prices right and then that essentially are bad for their health and happen to make them fat and then what we want to do is we want to sell them solutions that don’t work so that they keep going after it which are diets we make it about the weight so that they go on diets to fix their health problems as opposed to actually dealing with the real true solution which is that they’re eating shitty excuse me yeah can I say that when you’re eating shitty food that isn’t good for their bodies right that like you said before that is subsidized from the government which makes it so much better and so much easier for anybody to afford exactly so essentially we are creating a we are turning in what is actually a unhealthy food problem into a fatness problem by saying that they’re the same thing when they’re not the same thing body diversity exists right this whole concept of BMI is inherently flawed because it’s based on the idea that my body at five six should be the exact same weight as your body at five six when in reality body diversity is a real thing and not everyone who’s the same height necessarily is supposed to be the same weight right so again we’ve sort of we’ve distorted what is essentially a food problem and we’ve been like oh well we don’t want to change we don’t want to keep McDonald’s from making money so why don’t we just say that it’s an obesity problem or a fatness problem else something else and then we can sell something else oh my goodness that’s like a ding ding moment totally yeah okay so this is ding ding and it’s also given me more clarity around the situation of loving yourself in your of your own body so so basically okay the way I got interested in healthy eating like I was a terrible eater I never liked any healthy foods growing up I was super super picky candy junk food fast food that was my thing until and I never had it I never I was never over weight or anything but I didn’t hate my body and when I was in college I something I don’t even know what happened I guess it was an epiphany I realized huh so I was feeling so guilty after eating things and I would binge eat I would binge eat I know I didn’t I probably didn’t do it enough so I didn’t gain weight but I felt so guilty about the foods that I was eating and how I was making myself feel so I thought one day hmm I wonder if I can start to if there’s a way I can make healthy food taste my lifestyle yeah and then I can still eat and I won’t have to starve myself I can still eat and I won’t feel guilty because I hate feeling guilty this is oh I hate it

and so that’s basically how I got interested in healthy eating and started eating you know eventually vegetarian and vegan but do you think oh but also what that came like a change of my mindset you know like after a while I had more energy and I just kind of forgot about all that because I just I know I just I guess I looked at myself differently and I just felt more comfortable with my body or like after that like without even trying totally well also the thing is is it psychologically when we’re making choices around food because of how they make our bodies feel physically or our health or something that we don’t perceive to be a marker of our self-esteem ie our size we are much more likely to stick with that decision we are much more likely to not engage in binge eating behaviors because that which were in which I’ll explain why in a moment but essentially making healthful choices and changing your lifestyle around food for the purpose of health or for the purpose of feeling good physically in that moment right then and there is a very different psychological situation then I need to change the way I look to make other people happy oh yeah right yeah it’s interesting and one of the reasons for that is for example like if I’m making a choice just for health let’s say for example I’m trying to cut down on sugar mm-hmm and I decide okay but I that brownie looks really good so it’s worth it so I’m just gonna you know basically make an exception and eat that brownie I can kind of be like okay I’m taking the health hit there from that brownie my blood Sugar’s gonna spike but like it’s not the end of the world like I’m just gonna continue on with my regular like lower sugar choices moving forward right where is when we’re when it’s about weight there tends to be and the reasons for those are complicated tends to be much more of this like on or off the wagon mentality right so like I’m either sticking to my diet and doing well and like you know doing a good job at taking the weight off but if I fall off the wagon if I’m like oh my gosh I accidentally or decide for not even accidentally but for whatever reason decided to go ahead and eat the brownie I really like that feeling of like guilt and shame is so much more progressed because we think oh my gosh isn’t this made me fat and unlovable right you know and because deeper it’s so because the the way we think about wheat in this country is so related to shame in a way that health isn’t right now good point then goes back to the the fat the fat just yeah yeah the discrimination totally totally social status so as essentially weight is a form of social status and in this country and increasingly the world and so whenever we have when we’re making decisions for wheat it’s like the shame around it is so much bigger than it is for health now right I will say that that is changing and there is some conversation in this country about health shaming going on and basically this sort of moralizing of food and sort of making health into this sort of like almost religious ethical issue like you absolutely yeah I mean a couple articles about it this is a big hot top this is like the new hot topic guys oh yeah okay good good this is the new hot topic there is a conversation about health shaming and I think that the reason why health shaming has come up is because of increased incidence of orthorexia so oh my goodness yeah increased it so orthorexia for those of you who don’t know is basically a compulsive obsessive sort of very anxiety-provoking with making healthful choices to the point where you know you like can’t even be around brownies because it makes you anxious and so this this is real like this is a real diagnosis that people are seeing in greater and greater numbers it was recently added to the DSM as as one as a you know as a form of kneading disorder and this is something we’re seeing more and more and it’s there is no doubt that that is parallel to again the sort of moralizing of health right so and when I say moralizing how and shaming around health that’s exists to some extent it is by no means as shaming the health culture is by no means as shaming as the weight culture I mean the shame around weight is number one so show mm-hmm but like the shame around health is absolutely increasing and something that’s happening also and I think a lot of that has to do with you know there’s just a lot of a lot of reasons for it but but yeah that’s something that that we certainly seeing so my sort of answer to that sort of my kind of political answer if you want to hear it I do is essentially you know health is a value that I should be able to choose for myself right so it’s my body I get to do with it what I want so I personally do choose to you know eat lots of vegetables move my body on a

regular basis and do things that improve the health of my body so that I can live a long happy healthy life and you know health is basically a personal value to me I don’t require or make someone else feel badly if it’s not a value of theirs right that makes sense yeah like you are allowed to do it basically it’s the PERT it’s the idea of everyone’s allowed to do with their own body what they want mm-hmm well yeah and I feel like when we do shame other people for not you know whether it’s you know they don’t they’re eating what you don’t agree with or their asides that you don’t agree with I think the impulse to just shame that person or to judge that person comes from us being uncomfortable with ourselves and being threatened by the other I couldn’t agree more yeah I mean might as well just like I’m pretty low-key and you’re like chill and laid-back like yo I don’t have time to be anything like you do what you want to do okay mm-hmm so okay so so getting back to one thing I was thinking before about being able to love your body is I feel like a lot of people don’t feel and I know this for myself you know from other entities that I’ve had and not feeling worthy of even loving my own body you know yeah totally well because it’s it’s it’s I mean we call it again I’m gonna use another sort of as a more political Jarvik jargon and the weight discrimination we’re all that you know internalized fat phobia are internalized sort of body hatred that comes from you know if you perceive yourself to look any different than the ideal which of course everyone does to some extent look right like even models do yes way then you’re the there’s a really high likelihood that you’re gonna focus on your flaws and beat yourself up for it and that’s a huge huge problem and so basically you know again I think body diversity exposure in the media is like really really critical but greater than just a media right like the media it’s sort of chicken or the egg the media is really just a mirror of what’s going on an actual culture an actual society you know like what’s a menu for exactly what’s being advertised what’s being sold you know we internalize all these messages and then we pass them on to our kids and then they’ve have them on to their kids so I mean this is this is not new this is this is decades inculcation basically into this is the way you need to look this is the way you need to be otherwise you are essentially worth less in society oh yeah literally we’re talking about weight as a form of social currency or potentially even health as a suit as a form of social concern currency when we start to value ourselves in the way that we are valued by society and that it just is it’s just a given that in that kind of situation we are going to focus on what we don’t have and what our flaws are according to this sort of ideal right Wow to that so that takes it back to you know I asked I asked I asked you like how do you get out of that and you know the first thing he said was to expose yourself to more body diversity he’s gonna do it on Instagram and I guess other social media Pinterest I put Pinterest is great for that totally totally I’m sure that that’s true I’m not a big Pinterest person myself but I would imagine that it is I know that I have I started a Pinterest board a little while ago and I have a whole body positive like section I haven’t contributed to it in a wild it just yeah it’s a nice body positive images right we’re going to kind of like making a vision board for yourself totally like whether you know maybe you don’t want to have maybe you have like 50 different body types and you know can’t be all 50 of them but it’s like putting those images together to get in your brain that this is beautiful and this is you’re celebrating diversity back way totally definitely because the media might not do that for us so this is a super easy way to do that on your own absolute it’s fun absolutely another thing and this is sort of the flip side is you know things like editing out messages that make you feel badly about yourself so for example like if your mother is you know fat shaming you or body shaming you in any capacity again this is not just about the media this is about culture this is about interpersonal relationships this is the you know yeah this sort of way of thinking is kind of an epidemic that’s the real epidemic in my opinion but yeah like being able to have a conversation with let’s say it’s a parent who is like regularly body shaming you and say you know I really don’t appreciate these comments they’re really hurtful to me they’re not helping me change my body they’re not helping me help make healthful choices you’re just making me feel badly about myself which likely is gonna let me like sit in my apartment by myself eating Ben and Jerry’s like that’s probably what’s gonna come of this psychological

situation yeah yeah I mean again it depends on the situation everyone’s different but I’m more just giving an example of you know it’s adding positive things that’s great but again we also live in a society where lots of negative things are constantly coming in and not just from the media but from all sorts of sources and being aware of that and sort of empowering yourself to I guess for lack of a better word either stand up to those forces and or just like politely take them out of your life yeah well that’s good yeah that’s really good that’s also like empowering it’s another form of self empowerment for sure it’s self advocacy yeah standing up for yourself yeah it’s very very freeing so how do you work with I think you are so wise how do you work with women to do this stop fighting food well again most women come to me because they identify with sort of the binge eating or emotional eating part of this cycle so admittedly that’s how like 99% of people come to me then we start getting into a conversation about okay so where is the binge eating and emotional eating come from the binge eating absolutely is largely coming from excess restriction and this is something I you may or may not have heard me talk about but shame around food you know when we feel shameful about what we’re doing it it actually in and of itself can contribute to binge eating because we kind of go into this mode of oh my gosh I’m doing something wrong better do it now tomorrow I’ll be good yeah you know tomorrow I’ll be good syndrome is is really where a lot of binge eating comes from and so doesn’t eat it all right now so that tomorrow won’t even have to deal with it because it’s already inside exactly great cuz that makes sense how it does somehow have you all like that exactly so most of my clients they come to me like for that specific reason and then we get into some of these deeper conversations about weight because again how can you stop how can you end the sheet which is really the shame cycle around food without talking about body image without talking about some of these issues that we kind of got into today like we what we got in today like that’s the deep stuff like that’s the big stuff that I get into with people like wit way later are you yeah you’ve got you do that a little taste because again most of my clients they’re so they’re they’re like deep and the binge eating diet binge cycle and they like from their standpoint like they’ve never heard the term weight discrimination most of them as probably most of the people listening to this hat I know like it’s it’s unusual so they just are coming to me saying Isabelle I keep trying to lose weight and I can’t stop binge eating my face off or I can’t control myself around food or I keep eating my feelings I can’t stop thinking about food these are the problems and quotes that women really identify when they come to me they generally only later on learn how related it is with all of these other issues including but not limited to like this political and social issues really men this is so deep and so interesting hey I love I feel like it hopefully I’m gonna say hopefully I know that and whoever’s whoever’s watching or listening this I’m sure people are getting some nuggets of wisdom and gems and out of this yeah I mean I am myself right so and then you also have your blog you write different posts about these things all this stuff yep my blog my blog actually for those of you who are interested if you’re like in it with the emotional eating binge eating like craziness my blog actually really focuses on the food part which is you know really talking about like okay how do we change our relationship with food specifically that’s actually about half of my stop fighting food program is really talking about sort of the psychology of why people eat the way they do and how they make those choices and sort of how we end the cycle the issue then just becomes what you end up learning essentially as you get through the blog and as you get through you know stop fighting food at the video training series is that you get you come up against a wall at some point where it becomes impossible to end the shame around food and then sort of the shame spiraling that’s making all this binge eating emotional eating stuff happen becomes impossible to actually deal with that unless you decide to do the body image work yeah that’s where then it basically that’s like phase two like body like body image work is essentially Phase two of this whole situation it’s like okay I really I now understand what is driving my compulsive behaviors around food and I also understand that I’m gonna come I’m coming up against a block wherein I can’t stop feeling badly about what I eat and shame spiraling into binge eating and you know essentially restricting my food I feel like I can’t stop trying to you know desperately try to control my food even though I know I’m probably going to rebel against that control I can’t stop

doing it I feel compulsion to it because I feel so badly about my body or so desperate to lose weight and so that’s where the body image conversation be given and then I can start to team to your how you actually react and I actually yeah that’s when people really in my and become quote-unquote normal eaters right and again normal eating does not mean unhealthful eating by any stretch of the imagination I eat super healthy foods but I don’t have an emotional attachment to what I’m eating I don’t feel obsessive I don’t feel compulsory and through it it’s effortless it’s like what am I gonna have for lunch today I guess I’ll have you know salad with Chuck these yeah you know whatever it might be YUM yeah that sounds good to say I knew you’d like that one right super cool so okay also you mentioned the video training series so is that is that start is that already out no it isn’t well it’s not you can yeah it’s not officially out it comes out in September you can sign up to be sort of like on you can basically sign up to get the video series when around is out so for those of you who are like I definitely want to get it on this you can check out the link which I’m sure you’ll put I’ll share the link what’s the date exactly cuz we might this but it might come out yeah but this time this comes out will probably probably just in time for the series opening with number 15 okay so either way you should just go and sign up yeah because it’ll either be pretty close to September 15th or September 15th we’ll come and gone and you’ll be out and yeah yeah but um yeah and so this training series it’s how long is it is it like how does it work it’s so it’s three videos it’s basically three free introductory videos about this general philosophy that we’ve been talking about today the first two are really about like getting into what’s driving these food behaviors how the cycle works how we get out of this food cycle and then the last video talks is sort of a little bit more introductory it’s an introduction to how body image plays into all of this as we’ve sort of talked about now and yeah it’s it’s a pretty you know I’m I love this video training series it’s really easy to consume like pretty short to the point yeah and then yeah and then there’s the stop fighting food masterclass which is also going to be coming out in October which is that true tried-and-true intensive four month group coaching program where we deep dive into everything and is that as can people join that from anywhere like – well you have to sign up for the video training series and then you can and then you can and then you learn about the master class and you can do the master class if you want but I’m everyone start with the video training series exactly see see if you don’t think I’m totally crazy um and then if you if you really want a deep dive into this stuff and you really want to you know get expert in this conversation and really change your relationship with food permanently the master classes is where it’s at wonderful yeah that’s so exciting I can’t wait so I’m gonna share all the links with you guys so you can go straight to her website and sign up for the training series and we’ll put your social media another thing I would love to get from you I guess you know maybe when I post this video we can see I’ll share that below also but I want to know like who are your favorite do you have favorite women that we should be following on Instagram like Bonnie positive to make it like hot ladies to check out oh my gosh so again it fully depends on who you are and then really all about finding people who resonate with you and your experience so it’s gonna be totally different for everyone yeah but some people who I think are doing cool work like right off the bat there’s an Instagram called my name is Jessamine she is a body puzzle I love her she’s super close all those cool poses yeah she’s a perfect example of like she actually she actually recently lost a bunch of weight she I think she lost 40 pounds she’s a plus-sized woman and she essentially was like I’m not gonna feel badly about my body to the point where I don’t want to go to yoga right like I’m gonna go live my life and I’m gonna embrace my body for what it is no matter what and she like radically she for the first time basically was able to radically change her lifestyle because it wasn’t all about weight loss it was really about making herself feel good she happened to lose weight that was like something that came out of it which was something like you know that obviously never happened to her before mm-hmm but really it was like she is very clear that you know it was really through like self-love and about you know doing what she wants to do in the world and making herself feel good and sort of taking the shame and self-hate out of the equation and actually allowed her to make sustainable healthful choices like go to yoga and regular business that’s so cool yeah she’s awesome okay well definitely link is hurt so it’s I am jessamine I believe so yeah

yeah I’ll link her I’ve been seeing her in other places as well yeah there is more of a conversation about body positivity and the poppin inclusiveness yeah yeah I love it I love it so much yeah awesome well thank you so much for having me yeah and I want to tell I want to encourage anyone if you have any more questions for Isabelle leaving the comments section or like I said I’ll give you guys two links to go straight to her site you can ask her but yeah I wonder where what other people think about this this topic and you know so cool I mean girl I could talk to you for days about this ditto and I do hope you guys will check out the video training series because there’s a lot more to learn a lot more where this came from and well we’re gonna be having lots of very interesting conversations about all of these details and getting people’s opinions in the video training series so check out the stop fighting food link and sign up it it’s gonna be quite a quite a combo it’s gonna be good oh yeah I’ll be promoting it across channel so everyone will see it yay he’s so much awesome ditto love being here yeah bye guys bye